Back Problems

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by EddieDingle, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. Flusha

    Flusha New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How much experiance on a laser have you got Shatty007??

    "I wouldn't advocate sailing to get fit, either. I realise the Laser is a physical boat, having sailed one a couple times myself (Laser 1, Standard Rig), which is why I would advocate being strong as hell to get the best out of yourself."
     
  2. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I can attest that back pain can be worse than labor pains. Labor is more like intestinal flu. Back pain is a knife. Labor ends. Back pain goes on and on. Yikes! I'm going to go stretch now.
     
  3. EddieDingle

    EddieDingle Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Thanks everyone, these are all really great tips. It is safe to say the Laser is the most physically involved boat I have ever sailed on. I will take a few days off sailing to get healthy.
     
  4. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Alright. I'm just saying, you know?

    But see, it's not more effective to isolate a muscle, because that's not how it works in real life? Get me? That's why I'm advocating training movements.

    You don't really want to isolate anything.

    Free weight, compound movements will give you balanced training, more comparable to something you might encounter in every day life.

    How often do you bend over and pick something up? Deadlift.
    How often do you squat down for a multitude of reasons? Squat.
    How often do you lift/raise something over your head? Overhead press.


    About 5/6 years racing at high level. Not much international (Europe, etc.) experience, but NA, yes.

    Selected to my province's sailing team.

    Pretty much life consuming for that time.

    Nothing spectacular, or even worth mentioning, really, but I've been around a little.

    Internet sarcasm doesn't come across well.
     
  5. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I strongly suggest that people don't listen to exercise advice off the internet, same with medical advice. A lot of gym instructors & personal trainers at least in Australia have only completed a short 2-4 week course, whilst there are good ones out their, it does pay to look at their qualification and also listen to what your body is saying as it's easy to do lots of damage.

    If anyone one wants to read a comprehensive book on fitness and training specific to sailing, Michael Blackburn's book "Sail Fitter" is very good and he has a PhD in Sports Science.

    Personally, if I was going to the gym, I'd rather work muscles in isolated groups where it's easier to do an exercise properly, doing general weights training can lead to doing the exercise incorrectly and doing more harm than good. I know when I was recovering from an ACL reconstruction, the fitness program was for several months based on isolated groups.

    However, most of my fitness training is either on the boat, cycling or climbing (mostly indoor but occassionally outdoor). The cycling works the bottom half well and the climbing works the upper half well.
     
  6. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Why not? I personally couldn't agree with you more.

    I know many, many people benefiting from it. I'm one of them.

    Are you saying not to heed the words of trainers who put their videos on YouTube? Mark Rippetoe, Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, the SquatRX series.

    Mark Rippetoe has one of the most highly regarded basic, beginner training books, ever: "Starting Strength"

    You're missing the point...%100. Compound movements are not any harder to perform than isolation exercises. For athletic performance, compound exercises far exceed compound exercises. I'm sorry, this is fact. What carry over do curls have for anything athletic?

    A nice analogy about curls: "Curls are like mustard: If want to put some mustard on a sandwich, fine, but if you want to eat a bowl of mustard, you're an idiot."

    I really hate seeing kids at the gym who want to be strong, but end up getting their info and routines from stupid muscle magazines. I always want to tell them: "Doing 5 types of curls will not make you strong," but that's not my place.

    Why are isolation exercises easier to perform than compound lifts? How many times have you squatted, pressed a barbell over your head or deadlifted? I learned everything by myself, by watching videos off YouTube and reading.

    I don't even understand what you mean by "doing general weights training". What does that even mean? You know what machines do? Give one, only one, forced range of motion. They can also create and exaggerate muscle imbalances.

    Just because you did that for your ACL, does that make it correct?

    Cycling does not replace strength training. It's fine for conditioning, but don't think it replaces strength training.

    Anyway, I'm done discussing how to get strong on here. It's like beating your head against a brick wall, and some people just refuse to listen or invest a little bit of time to learn properly.

    Lifting heavy using compound movements makes you: Stronger, faster, more flexible.

    Doing isolation exercises makes you: ?????????????

    Keep lifting how you are, maybe seeing results, maybe not. Like I said, some people succeed in spite of their training, rather than because of it.

    Sorry I tried to help. It's tough when people are stuck in a rut of misconception and misinformation.
     
  7. Flusha

    Flusha New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dunno if it’s sarcasm Shatty,
    Just think you should relax on pushing your opinion on everyone else. A forum is here for open friendly discussion.
    You need to chill a bit bro...

    This is intended in the nicest way possible, and am sure you great at stuff.

    I truly respect and read your opinion on stuff and think you a cool dude.
     
  8. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I know a forum is here for discussion, but when I hear about people lifting, I want to do what I can to make sure they're doing the best they can, taking the shortest, yet most effective path to their eventual goals.

    Jeffers said he wants to get stronger/more fit, but not gain weight, yet he is doing sets of 15, which are conducive to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

    There are many opinions, but some facts, as well. There are better ways to lifts and worse ways to lift.

    I don't claim to be great at anything.
     
  9. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    *whosh*

    Well something went someone's head.:rollseyes:
     
  10. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    You missing a verb there, Alan?

    To?
    Over?
     
  11. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Over.

    Shatty, those people you mention might be big on the web, but I've never heard of them. And I'd trust there advice as much as any exercise program put out by some celebrity. IMO relevant degree or higher qualifications from recognized colleges/universities count.
     
  12. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    "Big on the web"?

    Come on man!!!! That did make me mad. I won't curse, because then my post will just get deleted.

    "Big on the web, but I've never heard of them".

    They must be nobodies then, Alan. You're right. You shouldn't trust them at all. No correct literature gets passed over the web, or in video tutorials, done by the people themselves. They must use robotic fakes.

    I explained to you Mark Rippetoe's credentials. All these guys have certs/qualifications. Not that a piece of paper in your hand makes you automatically better at something. Surely you're not that naive?

    You definitely shouldn't take five seconds to at least Google them before saying something as completely unnecessary what you have said. That wouldn't make sense at all.

    "Big on the web". I cannot get over that.

    These Tom Slingsby and Paul Goodison guys might be big on the web, but I've never heard of them. I'd trust their sailing advice as much as I'd trust sailing advice put out by some celebrity. If they don't have a college degree or some piece of paper certification in their hand deeming them able to give me advice, they're worthless to me.

    Does that sound as utterly stupid to you as it does to me?
     
  13. Deimos

    Deimos Member

    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Pamela Anderson does a lot of fitness stuff and she is very well known - training DVDs for sale in supermarkets, etc. yet despite this I would not follow her training advice. Google her and you find loads of stuff - but that alone does not convince me to follow her advice.

    One aspect with the comparison between taking sailing advice from unknown sources and training/fitness advice is that bad sailing advice may make you slower and results worse (upsetting maybe but not too serious). Bad training advice will potentially do you injury and affect your health badly.

    I am no expert but have always thought that training advice would be different for different people. Somebody who is clinically obese would probably undertake a different plan from an Olympic athlete trying to perfect specific aspects. Get the obese person to do the Olympians training plan as it might not do him/her a lot of good. Maybe even more important when somebody has something troubling them (e.g. "bad knee" or "bad back") as these symptoms could be due to many different causes. This can maybe be a problem with internet/remote advice - it is "generic". Also, on fora there are quite a few people who like to appear knowledgeable whose actual knowledge is based only on what the have read on the internet - thus they are only repeating what other sources of unknown reliability have maybe repeated from other sources of unknown reliability ..... Given the personal tailored professional advice is easy to obtain (free or at very low cost) locally for most people I would always go with that. Of course internet based information can have uses (e.g. 2nd opinions to confirm what a professional has advised YOU) but I would not use it as a main source for a training plan.

    Then you come down to money. Again I have no idea about internet training advice but in some areas you get a "personality" putting their name to something in return for payment. Some people might check they are happy with what is being presented in their name, others might just be glad on the money and leave it at that. Thus superfit trainer Mr. X might have spent years writing his web site to hand out all his secrets for free - or some business person might have seen a gap/potential, written any old rubbish and paid Mr. X for use of his name. Whilst some will feel they have their reputation to maintain, others might not (or might delegate, etc.). Who knows if/how much this happens. And reading a web site does not reveal much. Basing your health/fitness on such unattributable info when there are better alternatives might seem unnecessary.

    (Just my take on internet reliability - has uses but also needs caution).
    Ian
     
  14. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    You want to laugh?

    Okay, here is it:

    Yesterday I was alone at the club. I was going to prepare the club Lasers for our local racing event in a couple of weeks.
    "Stupid LooserLu", not age 19 but age 46, lifted alone a hull of a Laser....

    Evenings, already at home, I got a "specific answer" of my back: a medium lumbago... huhu

    Cheers
    LoserLu
     
  15. wessel

    wessel Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    geez, I went from 175 to 230 just lifting one ounce at a time ...
     
  16. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Mr. T kept fit just by pitying fools.

    It's probably no consolation, Shatty, but I've started using your training advice in my home gym. It hasn't hurt me yet. I've been doing the same work out for years to be strong enough to climb back into my Laser, so it was definitely time for a change. At my age, any gains will be slow. Keep y'all posted on that, especially if I start looking like Mr. T.
     
  17. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Also, if anyone is going to heed any advice I throw out there, realise:

    I have NO certifications/qualifications.

    I learn by read and asking questions to those who DO know.

    I participate in a very well run and well contributed forum dedicated to these things. That is where I have learned.

    I didn't know how to deadlift or squat properly, but I took my cell phone to the gym and taped some of my lifts, and then got a form check from the guys on the forum.

    That's how I learned. It took a lot of question asking and work on my part, but I'm better for it.
     
  18. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    LOL

    You just keep doing what you're doing.
     
  19. Kratos

    Kratos Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I will.

    And I will get strong as hell. You talk as if I am doing something wrong.

    That sailing example I used follows the exact same model you used, and it sounds stupid as hell. You know this, I know this.

    Instead, you say "LOL" because you don't have some smart ass answer with which to counter.

    Or are you laughing because, instead of remaining weak and saying "I can't do this", as many do, I was proactive and invested some time into learning what I had to do and how to do it?
     
  20. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    LOL
    And I thought it's the privilege of people like me, a native of GER, to be unable to understand a joke. Usually, I go downstairs to laugh loud, I'm Westfalian.
    But, I guess you're going to top me. ;)

    All my apologizes to you, for that I am kidding now a bit, Shatty. Take it easy.
    LooserLu
     

Share This Page