All about to kick off....

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Laser Tim, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    Apparently another source on SA has now said the factory is open after an 'extended' Easter break.....
     
  2. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    http://www.kirbytorch.com/

    Looks like he already has builders lined up, and he wants to re-work the existing ILCA into the Torch class.
     
  3. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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  4. CaptainAhab

    CaptainAhab Active Member

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    They must have one of those new 3D printers out back.

    This is a sad day in sailing history.
     
  5. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    Looking on the bright side, maybe the rights to the Laser name will become worthless and the Class can pick them up for a song.

    In the meantime, maybe the Torch will adopt the long hoped for new sail design and we'll come out ahead.
     
  6. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    This is not over by any means. While a new builder tries to set up shop in the alley out behind the magazine editorial offices, there is still a court case working its way through the system. The court could rule against Kirby, meaning the new builder would have to compete directly against LPE's existing building experience, supply chain, and dealer network. Sounds like a risky business move to me.

    The ILCA tried to head this off a couple of years ago with bad/incomplete information, and that obviously failed. Quite frankly, they should wait for the court case to be resolved before making any deals on a Kirby Torch class.
     
  7. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Ontario Yachts is hardly "out behind the magazine offices" and if quality is any measure of success, the boats from Dirk will be as good and consistent as the construction manual allows.
    I don't think the dealer network in North America cares one bit where they are getting their boats from. In the past couple of years LP has changed the supply chain relationship, and "dealers" are now ordering directly from the 3rd party suppliers, not from LP for replacements parts (ie ordering from Harken, North Sails etc) Not to mention how many customer relationships at the dealer level might have been soured when LP made replacement parts scarce.

    Frankly, IMHO, if ILCA doesn't morph into ITCA, they should be left behind with LP
     
  8. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Sad ?

    I would think sailors in Europe and NA would be glad and rejoicing. We are more than LP's customers, many of us are class members and LP is not supporting the class.
     
  9. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    Don't LaserPerformance make a number of other boats using the Laser trademark? Laser Vago, Laser Pico, Laser Bahia and some others. Even if they can't build Lasers any more, wouldn't they want to hang on to the rights to the Laser name for use with these other boats?
     
  10. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    If BK wants to build support from class members, he needs to explain who he selected as builder and their qualifications. Right now there is just an address for a house which from Google Maps appears to have been converted into a duplex, half of which is occupied by a massage business. Not one of "those" places, but still not what you would expect for a qualified builder.
     
  11. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    No idea how it works in the US but in the UK when there is a court case in progress people (involved in the case) have to be careful what they say/argue in public. Never reflects well if what should be argued in court comes to be argued in public (by those involved in the case). So I can appreciate Kirby being quiet at the moment as his priority must be not to jeopardise his case.

    Ian
     
  12. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    I am pretty sure it is the same in the US.

    All Kirby has done is announce he is (re-)launching a (new) boat called the Kirby Torch. All current Laser dinghies which have an ISAF Plaque are considered to be class legal Kirby Torch dinghies as well.

    I am sure Rastegars lawyers will whinge and complain but at the end of the day they are no longer licensed to build the boat and will not be supplied plaques by ILCA/ISAF what can they argue?

    The real nail in the coffin will be if ILCA decide to become ITCA (although they cannot use that particular moniker as the International Topper Class Association might be upset).
     
  13. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    It's already out in the public that Dirk Kneulman (Ontario Yachts) would be the builder in NA , and PSA in Australia, 3rd builder in Europe (Netherlands IIRC) .. Ask any Etchells or Sonar owner about Dirk's boats, they are at the top of the heap. And building the Laser as Gouv has pointed out, is not exactly art or science..

    The name behind the address being used right now is John Kerr, who has been helping BK. Nothing hidden/devious about it.
     
  14. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    If the "Torch" name shines bright ;) , I would think the "Laser" name starts to take on about the same significance as the "Yugo"
     
  15. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    This may be why BK has gone down the Kirby Torch route as Rastegars bunch of cronies could argue that the Laser TM for use with sailing dinghies cannot be taken off them.
     
  16. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    no barrister, but guess LP will argue that the contracts are not valid, and that they should be continued to be supplied plaques..
    In the meantime ILCA has apparently lost their Australian builder.

    Not sure this is checkmate, but seems like a good strategy (make it so one builder can't produce legal Lasers), then recruit the other builder and start a new class, and work on recruiting the class org and it's members to come along. Hell, I'm in

    Even if it's decided the contracts are not valid and LP is allowed to continue to make boats, good chance there will be no one left to make them for.
     
  17. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    The website is an attempt to win the support of rank and file class members to gain support for the Torch class and the new builders. This immensely pleases me on one hand as it is the most direct attempt by anyone involved in this fiasco to reach out to those who actually buy and sail these boats. I am disappointed on the other hand is it is still cryptic and incomplete information, subject to the conspriacy theories of internet warriros (yes like me, guilty as charged).

    The bar set by the opposition in this PR campaign was set very, very low. It should be a pretty easy battle to win.
     
  18. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Ever heard of the International Lightning Class Association??
     
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  19. CaptainAhab

    CaptainAhab Active Member

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    It will be weird seeing all of the new boats with numbers 1,2,3, etc. We have been seeing hull numbers over 100k since the mid eighties.

    Hopefully a little Karma will Torch the Rastegar boatsheds. They have a history of spontaneous combustion so it would be no surprise.

    Human greed has ruined many things in society. Eventually their own greed ruins themselves. The real shame is all of the employees that are going to lose their jobs for working for that devil.
     
  20. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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