A new clew tie-down sleeve?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by drLaser, May 11, 2004.

?

Would you be consider buying a "JC Tie-Down Sleeve"?

Poll closed Jul 10, 2004.
  1. I would, mainly because it would save me rigging time

    34.5%
  2. I would, mainly because it would improve my upwind performance

    27.6%
  3. I would, mainly because it eliminates clew tie-down friction

    41.4%
  4. I would not, since my current tie-down is satisfactory

    24.1%
  5. I would not, because I probably can't afford it

    13.8%
  6. I would not, for other reasons

    10.3%
  7. Undecided

    13.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. LaserChef

    LaserChef New Member

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    it's my impression from Shevy's post that the JC model incorporates a hook for direct attachment of the sail's clew, not simply a point of contact for the purpose of securing the sail to the boom. This feature would substantially improve the rigging and emergency dumping performance of such a system since the sail could be free, with the outhaul lines and block slacked until the moment you decided to "clip" on or off. Do I have this concept correct?
     
  2. james17

    james17 New Member

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    well i dunno until sum1 posts a picture of it! i will ask eddie for my username and password on drlaser
     
  3. LaserChef

    LaserChef New Member

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    Perhaps no one is interested in posting a picture until ILCA makes some declaration of their interest/no interest. This would delay the oppty for others to quickly knock off the design and come to market with a competitive, if not slimy substitute.
     
  4. wabbit

    wabbit New Member

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    After reading about the sleeve, I did some trials the other week with a piece of PVC stormwater pipe that was slightly larger in diameter than the boom. I cut a piece about 5 inches long and then cut a slit down its length so I could open it out to fit over the end of the boom. I then tied my clew-tie-down around the PVC in the fashion that I would normally do around the boom.

    Now this was a very rudimentary solution to the flash options being discussed here, BUT, the system was quite effective!

    If you can tie the clew down tightly to the PVC there are very little losses in leech tension. The PVC slides more easily along the boom than does rope. PVC is cheap! You do not have to take the boom apart to fit the sleeve. People who can tie knots can have just as an effective system as those who can spend money!

    I am not saying my system was perfect, but for a forst attempt, I was fairly impressed.


    Hope this helps.
     
  5. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Pretty cool idea! If the ILCA decides to allow this kind of modification, perhaps they could consider wording the rule to allow a range of implementations like JC's and yours.

    Cheers,

    Geoff S.
     
  6. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Here is a hint to the "JC tie down sleeve":

    The following quotation is to find on page 7 of a pdf-file at www_laser_org:

    http://www.laser.org/c/cnt/down/2004AGM.pdf

    Start of Quotation:
    "

    Report of the 2004 ILCA World Council Meeting
    Friday May 21, 2004

    (...)

    Perhaps the longest single discussion topic of the meeting centered on the various
    proposed rule changes and rule interpretations. There were many “minor” proposed
    changes, such as an interpretation on allowing one rivet to be used to attach a soft boom
    strap, allowing a slightly larger diameter rudder bolt (driven by English vs. metric
    systems), allowing rope splices in the traveler, etc. The two most interesting proposed
    rule changes centered on proposals aimed at centerboard and centerboard trunk wear, and
    on the “John Christiansen Boom Sleeve.” There were a total of three proposals aimed at
    the problem of centerboard and trunk wear, ranging from allowing tape in the top few
    inches of the of the trunk to allowing “wear strips” (similar to the Byte and 29er classes)
    along the top and bottom edges of the trunk. At the end, it was recognized that there is a
    problem but none of the proposed rule changes provided a solution consistent with the
    Laser Class rules so the issue was sent to the Technical Committee for further
    consideration. The boom sleeve was tested by two of the World Council members, both
    of whom found it to significantly reduce the friction at the boom end making it amazingly
    easier to adjust the outhaul while sailing upwind in breeze. Concerns were raised
    regarding long term “real life” performance and potential cost issues. Again, this item
    was referred back to the Technical Committee for further testing and consideration.



    (...)

    "
    End of Quotation

    Now, my question is: When do they decide, to get this sleeve classlegal -
    2005, 2008, 2012?

    [And do you understand that about what is now allowed, f.e. with "the problem of centerboard and trunk wear"? Maybe this is also something to discuss deeper in seperate threads - I understand nothing... if I read that words in the report]

    Chiao
    LooserLu
     
  7. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Thanks for posting the note about the Class-Association discussions!


    There was a resonable discussion (esp. the rules) about the problem of the leading edge of the centerboard wearing a groove in the top/forward area of the centerboard trunk:
    RANT - leading edge of daggerboard trunk

    Cheers,

    Geoff S.
     
  8. Murphs

    Murphs New Member

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    after talking to the ILCA technical director today (Adam French), the general feeling about the jc sleeve was good apart from the cost issues, he did also mention that they also liked the pvc pipe sleeve instead of aluminium, for cost reasons (i am unsure if they got the pvc pipe idea from 'wabbit' of TLF or not).

    another problem is the long term wear on the boom by the sleeve, a test is being conducted to assess if or how much wear the jc sleeve causes on the boom
     
  9. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Thank you Chris, I think, this information helps for waiting and to get calm again :). This with the wearing seems to be a problem, I´m in the same opinion and I agree to the point: better let the pros test it and make it maximum perfect, than quarrel about this "wearing-footprints at the boom" later on. I personally would prefer one of metall and not that with plastic (also a very cool idear), because it has probably more durability, although *wabbits* solution could be the cheaper and lighter one.

    Maybe the builders have little look to drLasers-tie-downs and make some tiny wheels (balls) into that J-C-tie-down for more reducing the friction and the wearing footprints.
    To reduce the wight of that new JC-tie-down, they could think about alu or titan. But alu is maybe 2 smooth and titan is horrible expensive - I´ll wait and see what they design and build.

    Chiao
    LooserLu
     
  10. Darryn

    Darryn New Member

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    I'm using spectra at the moment, if you tie it in a loop in it you can pass the loop through clew, around the boom and back over the knot, it holds in place well, slides and is easy to undo.
     
  11. Radialater

    Radialater New Member

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    the money you would lose in buying such a device would be nothing compared to the amoutn of mclube you have to currently use.
     
  12. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    See:
    http://www.drlaser.org/ILCA/images/JC-tiedown.jpg

    I hear the JC strap got a good evaluation at the recent World Council meeting. The photo above should give you an idea. Note that all commercial rights are reserved by John Christianson.

    SG
     
  13. Goonie

    Goonie Guest

    We need a password.

    I recently became an ILCA-NA member. How do I access this?
     
  14. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Your district secretary should be able to send it to you.

    Cheers,

    Geoff S.
     
  15. Fred Herr

    Fred Herr New Member

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    I would love to see a stainless tie down sleeve introduced to the class because it would make the boat much easier to rig and outhaul adjustment would be improved as well.

    Regards,

    Fred Herr
     

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