A new clew tie-down sleeve?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by drLaser, May 11, 2004.

?

Would you be consider buying a "JC Tie-Down Sleeve"?

Poll closed Jul 10, 2004.
  1. I would, mainly because it would save me rigging time

    34.5%
  2. I would, mainly because it would improve my upwind performance

    27.6%
  3. I would, mainly because it eliminates clew tie-down friction

    41.4%
  4. I would not, since my current tie-down is satisfactory

    24.1%
  5. I would not, because I probably can't afford it

    13.8%
  6. I would not, for other reasons

    10.3%
  7. Undecided

    13.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    Hi,

    In a post on April 8, I had noted that "JC Tie-down Sleeve", an article about the re-engineered clew tie-down fitting designed by John Christianson was made available in the "Class & Racing Rules" and "Maintenance" sections of the drLaser web site.

    Since then, the "JC Tie-down Sleeve" was being tested by ILCA NA Vice Chairman Tracy Usher, and is now on its way to the Worlds at Bitez, Turkey so that the World Council members can have a chance to seriously consider it and test-sail it.

    The "JC Tie-down Sleeve" is a cylindrical polished stainless steel part that fits snugly around your boom end and allows you to quickly and securely attach your clew grommet to it. The clew is attached by just hooking it to an internal hook on the sleeve.

    The advantages of the system are:
    1) allowing you to keep your clew really far down, flat against the boom, giving you a tight leech and thus reducing the load on your vang - a feat impossible with a line tie-down, no matter what kind of line you use, while
    2) allowing you to unhook the clew from the boom in a snap, for adverse landing or emergency conditions, and
    3) eliminating almost all the friction of the tir-down on the boom.

    Those who resist the introduction of this new "gizmo" as a legal Laser part cite that:
    1) nobody really needs this (except maybe for hot-shot racers for whom a tight leech is crucial), and
    2) a hooked clew can never be as secure as a tied clew, and may accidentally release from the hook in certain deathrolls.

    The drLaser article points out that the design is such that it is impossible for the clew grommet to accidentally release from the hook withou human help.


    In consideration of the pending World Council review of this new part, it may be interesting to determine if such a new part would have grassroots support. Both the World Council and the designer - a long-time Laserite, himself - would probably want to know if such a part would have a market.

    I would appreciate it if you took the poll and voiced your opinions based on the above and/or the (ILCA Members Only) drLaser article.

    Shevy Gunter
    Member, ILCA-NA
    Editor, drLaser
     
  2. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    Doesn't this re-open the and/or question? We need a rules interpretation in simple language:

    Sue sticks Sue's sail's clew with glue,
    Shy Stu sews Stu's sail's clew,
    Sly Sue sleeves Sue' sail's clew, too.
    Should shy Stu sue sly Sue?
     
  3. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    If the Builders had a new part to sell, I'm sure they would write the related rule so that sailors could use as a clew tie-down either a metal sleeve or a conventional flexible strap (with or without balls and/or tubes).

    The question here is: Is there public interest in such a gizmo?

    SG
     
  4. Murphs

    Murphs New Member

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    i am, as im sure most competitive sailors are. i know many people at my club are always strving to reduce friction there and fropm what i gather this piece of equipment would reduce friction alot
     
  5. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    Thanks, Chris!

    But why do we have so far just 12 voters out of 500???? Come on! This is your chance to participate! And you don't even have to be a member of ILCA to have a say here...

    Can we see some more hands!

    Shevy Gunter
     
  6. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi Shevy,
    although I´ve already voted, just let me notice the following:

    Your words:"...And you don't even have to be a member of ILCA to have a say here...

    Can we see some more hands!"

    How should a non-ILCA-member know (and vote) about the "John Christianson tie-down-sleeve" if she/he is not able to get a picture of it? As you know, the description is saved with a password only for ILCA-Members...

    Bye-bye
    LooserLu
     
  7. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    Hi, Ludwig,

    Just remember that "we" (i.e., ILCA Members) voted for the new rigging with optional blocks without seeing ANY of it in 1999!

    We have been expressing opinions on the carbon upper mast without seeing it, either.
    We even voted on it (and said "no") - without seeing it - in 1999.

    I believe the information provided in the starting post of this thread is sufficiently descriptive. It offers much more info than what we had in the above mentioned cases. What the JC Sleeve fitting "looks like", it's color, curves, polish, tech specs, etc. have no bearing on selecting one or more of the alternative answers to the public interest question "Would you consider buying a JC Tie-Down Sleeve?" - as it is described in the opening post.

    Non-members of ILCA will never get to vote on this or any other Class matter. Voting is a membership privilege! Nevertheless, that does not mean that you can not or should not affect public opinion, Builders' opinions and the Class' views. And this is the medium! This is the non-members' opportunity to make a difference! Vote, and if necessary, write to explain your rationale!

    Even if non-members shy away from expressing an opinion here for lack of a photographic description of the proposed fitting of for fear that their opinions will ultimately not count, I bet we have hundreds of ILCA members here. I think at least they should express their opinions. NOW! The World Council is considering the fitting in Bitez right now!

    If you think the JC Sleeve is a great idea, and if the ILCA Worls Council decides simply to ignore the proposal rather than offer it to the vote of the Membership, then it will be your fault because you did not encourage the Class to offer it to a vote.

    If you think that the JC Sleeve is a redundant or terrible idea, and if ILCA decides to support the proposal and offer it to the vote of the Membership, then it will again be your fault because you did not discourage the Class.

    It's partially up to you!

    That's civil participation for you!

    Right here, on The Laser Sailboat Forum! (Not intended as an ad for Bradley, but let's face it: this medium is the ONLY one offering such on-line polling facilities to the Laser sailors world-wide.)


    PS. The reason why the article is for "ILCA Members Only" is to protect the Intellectual Property Rights of the designer. ILCA Constitution (theoretically) protects the designer, an ILCA member himself, against misuse of the proprietary design information by other ILCA members. That margin of security is not available against non-members who are not bound by that Constitution.

    Best regards,

    Shevy Gunter
    Member, ILCA-NA
     
  8. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    My dear Shevy!!

    I have nothing against anything here!
    I just want to help.

    In Germany we have "a word" for that:

    "Das Auge ist mit!" (The eye eats with you).

    I hope you understand what I mean :).
    And for that, I only want to let you (who to have to decide how to make advertising for it) this know, as only 1 little of the 100000´s, no more - no less.

    Nothing against you, Shevy,
    nothing against the designer himself or his copyrights etc. pp.,
    nothing against any official or non official sailor, ok!!

    As you, I only want that a lot of more than yet 13!!!! say something to this new idea of a clew tie down. The designer has deserved it! And if you want to missunderstand me, Shevy, than it´s your´s!

    Please, all readers of the TLF and anywhere else: vote for it!

    Peace!

    Ludwig Brinckmann
    Germany
    cruising-Laserite
     
  9. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    > And if you want to missunderstand me, Shevy,

    Never, Ludwig! No misunderstandings. And thanks!!!

    My post, addressed to you, was actually a plea to everyone to get involved.

    Stay wet,
    SG
     
  10. fishingmickey

    fishingmickey Member

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    Howdy Fellow Laserites,
    I think anything that will improve boat performance and ease of use in so far as rigging will be a welcome addition in my book. I believe Fred Schroth showed me a very similar boom sleeve type clew hold down device he had in his bits box. I don't remember who he said built it.
    I believe that it would be much easier to use then attemping to tie down a clew tightly when the wind is honking and the sail just doesn't want to be managed.
    As long as whom ever markets it (hopefully John Christianson) will keep the price reasonable so everyone can afford one. Heck give it a test drive and evaluate it and let the membership decide whether or not it would be worthy of addition into the Laser one-design rules.
    The other side of the coin is rope clew tie down devices have worked fine for years, is there really enough of a difference in performance,ease of use and safety to warrent making the change.
    Full sails to Ya'll
    Fishingmickey
    150068/150087/178894
     
  11. james17

    james17 New Member

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    ive had my clew tie down sleeve for like 5 months now and they're great! so much easier to use than the rope! i dont know how much they are over there but here they are under about £10.
    They are so much better than the tie down cos they never ever jam and are quick and easy to put on! GO OUT AND BUY ONE is my suggestion
     
  12. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Where did you get it from? So far as I know, the design being discussed here is just a prototype (only one or two in existence).

    Cheers,

    Geoff S.
     
  13. Murphs

    Murphs New Member

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    extremely good question Geoff, i was also under the impression that the JC clew tie down is still a prototype and the first proper one was sent to Bitez for the ILCA to have a look at.
     
  14. Teeftie

    Teeftie New Member

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    shevy, you were saying that non members should vote basied on the decription, but i cant really tell what it is from the vague dicriptions given.... could you please explain a little further?
     
  15. james17

    james17 New Member

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    well unless the JC one is any different to the rooster one i dont know! but ive been using my rooster one for seriously nearly 5 months and it never jams! i do was it through tho and it never loosens! anyone got a link to this JC one?
     
  16. SteveV

    SteveV New Member

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  17. james17

    james17 New Member

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    yup thats it! i would be able to have a look at the JC one but i dont know my password for the dr laser thing, does anyone have any other links to it?
     
  18. Teeftie

    Teeftie New Member

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    Ooh i have one very simaler to the rooster one, except my mother made mine for me at work! it works awesome and i am the first one around here to use that system, i have been many questions about it and the intrest seems there! is it ilegal or not because the way i read the rules it seems to be legal but i have been told otherwise
     
  19. james17

    james17 New Member

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    well i dont see why steve cockerill would advertise so much for it and sell a lot of them if it wasnt! surely he would notify us and it seems pretty clear in the rules that it is legal!
     
  20. JacksonAUS

    JacksonAUS New Member

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    This new system sounds like it will be fairly efficient. I use a piece if spectra at the moment, it can be a real hassle while rigging up (probably the most time consuming), and it does tend to cause a bit of friction. I'm looking forward to seeing what the new system is like.
     

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