Buying advice needed

phughes200

New Member
I was hoping to buy a laser (standard rig) for my daughter. I am looking at older boats and am concerned about the failing mast step issue. After reading a lot of posts about laser mast step repair, I was wondering if the manufacturer has updated the manufacturing process to fix the issue. I know the laser is a strict one class design. How common is this problem? Reading here it seems very common among older boats. Is that true or is it more a matter that the experienced racers here push their boats to the limit (as a good racer should)?

Also would you recommend the laser for a first time sailor? She has taken lessons in the opti and the JY420. This is for lake sailing only. I doubt she will get into racing. She is 5'10" and approximately 150 lbs. She is in good physical shape. She would also like to sail with a friend. I know two adults is tight unless you are good friends.

Philip
 
From what you have written, I think that a Sunfish might be a better choice for your daughter.

But if you want to go with a Laser (with the Radial rig obviously), just inspect the mast step carefully. Ask to test it (by filling it with water and seeing if the level drops in ~1 hour).
From reading the Forum, you do get the impression that mast steps fail all the time. This is NOT the case.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I have been debating the radial vers the standard. Due to my size (6'6", 230 lb), I need the radial. From what I have read here, my daughter is borderline and would probably be better with the radial.

Does this boat have room for two teenagers? I have sailed it in my younger days with another person and remember it was a little tight. I do remember having a blast in the high ocean winds.

What is the head room like on a sunfish? The last time I sailed it, I remember having to duck or lift the boom over my head. My height is in the torso.
 
Hi Phil. At 6'6"/230lbs you should sail the full rig. That's not a personal preference on my part but manufacturer recommended. Your daughter on the other hand would suit the radial.

As has already been said, the mast step issue is indeed a problem that gets a lot of air time but in practice isn't as common as you might think. Take my 1970s (well used) example that has a million faults....but the mast step is fine! Luckily (as Wavedancer details) it's easy to check a mast step with just a glass of water.
 
Where are you located? Maybe some club members in your area would invite you out to give one a test sail to help make your decision.

If you're in Austin TX you're welcome to give mine a try - though it's an old POS :D.

Fitting two people on a Laser is not something you're going to want to do regularly - but I guess two HS girls could make it work... maybe.

I do really love having a singlehander, even at the expense of being able to take out a friend. My old C-15 was a lot of fun, but it took forever to set up and I was always at the mercy of finding a friend to go out with. With the Laser I can take it from the trailer to sailing away in 15-20 minutes and I don't have to wait around for anyone else. Maybe you need two Lasers or two Sunfish ;)

I have to do a lot of boom-ducking (6'1", 220 here) in the Laser, but it's okay as long as it doesn't get caught on my life jacket like it did yesterday. :eek:

It's been too many years since I've sailed a sunfish to remember if the boom height is better or worse.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I just got concerned about the mast step due to the posts here and the fact that the manufacturer (I believe) sells a mast step repair kit to fix the step and the bow damage.

I am still considering the laser but does anybody have any other recommendations. I am also looking at the Flying Scot for a family boat. But I still want something my daughter cas single handle.
 
I don't think the mast step issue exists in boats more recent than the 12**** series boats which were build in the mid 80's. But someone else can confirm this.
 
I highly recommend the laser over the sunfish. It has a lot more room to grow and have fun in. If your daughter wants to race, she'll likely have more access to laser fleets than sunfish. But the big thing is safety. I haven't sailed Sunfish much at all, but it seems to me one bad capsize and the hull will fill with water. If it is like other boats I know like that, you can right it and limp back to shore with the hull submerged, but it can be tricky and exhausting. In a laser, the boat rights easily and sails away like nothing happened. I very much like a boat that can sail away from a capsize with no assistance from another craft. A laser, in fact, dumps any water in the cockpit when it tips over. So it rights dry. Before bailers were common, some folks would tip them over just to get the water out. Consider watching your daughter from shore and seeing her tip over. Do you want to be worried that the hull will fill with water and be unsailable, or do you want to know she can right it and sail off as if nothing had happened. the laser has a huge fun factor beyone the sunfish I think.

Totally enough room for her and a friend. I took a college buddy out once on a windy day and it was just fine. Crowded, but fine.

Agreed on the mast step test. Fill it with water and if the level doesn't go down, you have a solid mast step. If it does, walk away or offer much less knowing you have a repair coming. My first laser had a leaky step, it was fixed and sailed like new.

Regarding the Flying Scot, good family day sailor, but in college we sailed them for an invitational and called them Flying Sidewalks by the end. Not a very jazzy boat.
 
I highly recommend the laser over the sunfish. It has a lot more room to grow and have fun in. If your daughter wants to race, she'll likely have more access to laser fleets than sunfish. But the big thing is safety. I haven't sailed Sunfish much at all, but it seems to me one bad capsize and the hull will fill with water. If it is like other boats I know like that, you can right it and limp back to shore with the hull submerged, but it can be tricky and exhausting. In a laser, the boat rights easily and sails away like nothing happened. I very much like a boat that can sail away from a capsize with no assistance from another craft. A laser, in fact, dumps any water in the cockpit when it tips over. So it rights dry. Before bailers were common, some folks would tip them over just to get the water out. Consider watching your daughter from shore and seeing her tip over. Do you want to be worried that the hull will fill with water and be unsailable, or do you want to know she can right it and sail off as if nothing had happened. the laser has a huge fun factor beyone the sunfish I think.

Totally enough room for her and a friend. I took a college buddy out once on a windy day and it was just fine. Crowded, but fine.

Agreed on the mast step test. Fill it with water and if the level doesn't go down, you have a solid mast step. If it does, walk away or offer much less knowing you have a repair coming. My first laser had a leaky step, it was fixed and sailed like new.

Regarding the Flying Scot, good family day sailor, but in college we sailed them for an invitational and called them Flying Sidewalks by the end. Not a very jazzy boat.

Agreed, the laser is way more fun than a sunfish and you won't outgrow a laser. The mast step doesn't break easily and can be repaired if for some reason it does.
 
I highly recommend the laser over the sunfish. It has a lot more room to grow and have fun in. If your daughter wants to race, she'll likely have more access to laser fleets than sunfish. But the big thing is safety. I haven't sailed Sunfish much at all, but it seems to me one bad capsize and the hull will fill with water. If it is like other boats I know like that, you can right it and limp back to shore with the hull submerged, but it can be tricky and exhausting. In a laser, the boat rights easily and sails away like nothing happened. I very much like a boat that can sail away from a capsize with no assistance from another craft. A laser, in fact, dumps any water in the cockpit when it tips over. So it rights dry. Before bailers were common, some folks would tip them over just to get the water out. Consider watching your daughter from shore and seeing her tip over. Do you want to be worried that the hull will fill with water and be unsailable, or do you want to know she can right it and sail off as if nothing had happened. the laser has a huge fun factor beyone the sunfish I think.

Totally enough room for her and a friend. I took a college buddy out once on a windy day and it was just fine. Crowded, but fine.

Agreed on the mast step test. Fill it with water and if the level doesn't go down, you have a solid mast step. If it does, walk away or offer much less knowing you have a repair coming. My first laser had a leaky step, it was fixed and sailed like new.

Regarding the Flying Scot, good family day sailor, but in college we sailed them for an invitational and called them Flying Sidewalks by the end. Not a very jazzy boat.

I don't know where you got that info about the safety of Sunfishes, but it's all wrong. Sunfishes can be righted more easily than a full rig Laser by a 150 pounder and the water comes right out through the bailer.

My recommendation to consider a Sunfish was based on the original info provided by Philip:
150 lbs
first time sailor
wanting to sail with another person

The height of the boom on a Sunfish is highly adjustable. Racers have the rig down low; cruisers prefer to tie the halyard lower on the gaff to have more head room.

PS: I sail both and have no particular axe to grind. And yes, a Laser is more challenging and, once you get to know the boat, more fun in lighter conditions. However, Philip was asking advice for a 'first time sailor'.
 
I started on a laser full rig (my aunt got it for free) pretty young and had some great summers, I sailed it with my brother most of the time and occasionally we had 3 kids. We got a slot at the beach and sailed every day, all day regardless of wind conditions. I've been laser sailing (and eventually laser racing) ever since.

I've also taught 10-15yr old juniors to sail on some donated lasers with full rigs, we started them out 2 kids per laser and 1 instructor or 1 kid and 1 instructor. It gets tight with 3 people but we managed, instructor on the bow kids on the controls. After a few classes we had some of them sailing solo and the rest sailing in pairs as we followed in chase boats. They had an excellent time and all the same kids already signed up for this year.

Most beginners will sail in light to moderate winds and have a great time learning the boat,

Personally I would go with a laser, if she wants to race eventually, she can.
 
I think you will find that if you ask to compare boats on a Laser forum, you will receive a biased answer. That said, if your daughter has had lessons on the Opti and the JY420, why do you still consider her a first time sailor?

There is another thread where the weight limit of the radial and full rig is discussed. I think it comes down to the conditions that your daughter would be sailing in. Here is a video of two young ladies doing roll tacks and gybes in light wind in full rig lasers. I'd submit the smiles on their faces and room in the boat as evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/v/QY8MlytYgMw
 
Can't comment on the sailing over their but in the UK girls pretty much exclusively sail a radial if they go for a laser. I doubt she is going to get much heavier so she is never going to reach full rig weight whereas she sounds perfect for a radial (I wish I had her height!)

When I started in my radial way back in about 1996 I used to sail it 2-up when it got particularly breezy (not racing) to get used to it and then just go and play in breeze rather than race till I got more confident. The laser is a great boat to muck around in as well as race.

I'm shorter (5'6''), but heavier than your daughter, and I never sail full rig. Whether it is 5 knots or 25 knots I sail a radial.
 
Thanks for the advice.

It turns out my daughter is heaver than I thought. More like 160-170.

I describe her a a first time sailor. What I should have said is that she has taken lessons but this will be her first sailboat and her first sailing ouside of a class setting. This year, she seems to be getting it and enjoying it.

I am strictly a recreation sailor. I can definately help her with the basics but not the fine art of performance sailing.

Philip
 

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