Rule question

abenn

New Member
Approaching top mark on port, to be left to port as usual. No starboard tackers around. As I enter the 3 boat length circle, there's another boat clear behind me and slightly to windward. If the mark wasn't there I wouldn't have room to tack on to starboard in front of him.
I can call that he's not entitled to room but what does he have to do ? Can I just tack at the mark and expect him to bear away behind me ?
If it was me clear behind I would be lining up directly behind the guy in front so he can tack and I follow him around, but we have sailors here who like to think they can just keep going straight and force the boat in front to sail past the mark.
I guess if this happens, and he then ends up inside me I just protest that he wasn't entitled to room ? Even if after he tacks he ends up clear in front.

Is that all I'm entitled to do? - shout that he's not entitled to get inside me, but still wait until I have enough room to tack - either by him tacking or bearing away and going directly behind me before we tack.
 
I'm no expert but this is how I think the Rules apply in this situation...

As you were clear ahead when you entered the zone you are entitled to mark room under Rule 18.2(b). But once you pass head to wind in your tack, Rule 18.2(c) says that Rule 18.2(b) no longer applies. So then you are subject to the Rules in Sections A and B, specifically Rule 13 (While Tacking) which says that you have to keep clear of the other boat after passing head to wind until you are on a close-hauled course and Rule 15 which says that even when you acquire right of way (by being on starboard tack) you must initially give the other boat room to keep clear.

So, it's essentially as if the mark wasn't there. If you wouldn't have had room to tack in this situation in the absence of the mark, then you still can't tack. If you tack anyway and he has to change course to avoid you while you are tacking he can protest you under Rule 13.
 
That sounds right to me Tillerman. Thanks.
So being just slightly clear ahead on port at the mark doesn't really have any advantage. The sailor just behind and to windward can call the shots and get inside. Unless you can luff up and get directly in front so you have got room to tack.
 
I'm no expert but this is how I think the Rules apply in this situation...

As you were clear ahead when you entered the zone you are entitled to mark room under Rule 18.2(b). But once you pass head to wind in your tack, Rule 18.2(c) says that Rule 18.2(b) no longer applies. So then you are subject to the Rules in Sections A and B, specifically Rule 13 (While Tacking) which says that you have to keep clear of the other boat after passing head to wind until you are on a close-hauled course and Rule 15 which says that even when you acquire right of way (by being on starboard tack) you must initially give the other boat room to keep clear.

So, it's essentially as if the mark wasn't there. If you wouldn't have had room to tack in this situation in the absence of the mark, then you still can't tack. If you tack anyway and he has to change course to avoid you while you are tacking he can protest you under Rule 13.

That's my understanding as well.
 
That sounds right to me Tillerman. Thanks.
So being just slightly clear ahead on port at the mark doesn't really have any advantage. The sailor just behind and to windward can call the shots and get inside. Unless you can luff up and get directly in front so you have got room to tack.

That is correct. Tactically you need to be dead ahead (or as close to dead ahead as makes no difference). What Tillerman has said looks bang on to me.

Depending on how far to windward the other boat was it may have paid to pinch and try to get dead ahead or up to the layline whilst remaining clear ahead. Just be aware of any starboard tackers as you have no right of way over them!
 
I would assume you can pinch up past the bouy and than tack. the boat clear astern in ducking the mark would loose its windward advantage over you.
 
I would assume you can pinch up past the bouy and than tack. the boat clear astern in ducking the mark would loose its windward advantage over you.

The windward advantage isn't really that important. The boat tacking loses it's right of way when it goes beyond head to wind, i.e. begins to take. When this occurs, the boat behind becomes the new right of way boat and has right away immediately because it gained right of way because of the other boats actions. The only proviso on this is the boat behind cannot change course whilst the boat ahead is tacking, except to avoid contact, that is the boat behind can'tgo hunting for the boat taking. It's also worth knowing that the boat behind in this situation can also head up, so on a collision course before you go beyond head to wind.

Basically the boat ahead is screwed in all scenarios and must wait for the other boat to tack before it can tack.

The sensible thing to do when your 100m / 100 yards from the mark is to bear off a touch, so that the boat to windward is further to windard of you so you can complete your tack without interferring with him. If you both tack within the 3 boat radius, if you complete your tack before the other boat, then it's a simple port-starboard situation where it must give way to you. If you tack outside the 3 boat lengths, then the other boat is completely stuffed by rule 18.3.
 
Approaching top mark on port, to be left to port as usual. No starboard tackers around. As I enter the 3 boat length circle, there's another boat clear behind me and slightly to windward. If the mark wasn't there I wouldn't have room to tack on to starboard in front of him.
I can call that he's not entitled to room but what does he have to do ? Can I just tack at the mark and expect him to bear away behind me ?
If it was me clear behind I would be lining up directly behind the guy in front so he can tack and I follow him around, but we have sailors here who like to think they can just keep going straight and force the boat in front to sail past the mark.
I guess if this happens, and he then ends up inside me I just protest that he wasn't entitled to room ? Even if after he tacks he ends up clear in front.

Is that all I'm entitled to do? - shout that he's not entitled to get inside me, but still wait until I have enough room to tack - either by him tacking or bearing away and going directly behind me before we tack.

He would have to have established a clear overlap before entering the zone to be allowed mark room, If he became overlapped inside the zone he is not entitled to room. If you were clear in front you should have had room to tack to starboard and aquire the right of way position, initially giving the other boat room to keep clear.

If you're rounding close to the mark then his proper course will be to sail behind you. If you leave the zone, you lose your rounding rights.

It would help to see a diagram of the situation...
 
He would have to have established a clear overlap before entering the zone to be allowed mark room, If he became overlapped inside the zone he is not entitled to room. If you were clear in front you should have had room to tack to starboard and aquire the right of way position, initially giving the other boat room to keep clear.

If you're rounding close to the mark then his proper course will be to sail behind you. If you leave the zone, you lose your rounding rights.

It would help to see a diagram of the situation...

I agree a diagram qould help but we have assumed here that the OP was not on the layline to the mark and as such could not tack on to starboard as he would have been tacking in the WW boats water (plus tacking in the zone is a dodgy move at the best of times). If a boat to leeward of me tacking in front of me in the zone I would have no hesitation to call protest on them.
 

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