Honestly are Lasers of all years equally fast?

More Cowbell

New Member
ALL,
My wife and I recently welcomed a future sailor into the family. My wife is unable to look after him and crew. I am strongly considering jumping into Laser racing. Honestly are Lasers of all years equally competitive? I have been reading the threads about what to look for in a used Laser hull. I fully understand and appreciate the concept of one design racing. However in many fleets there are certain serial numbers to avoid or key into. For instance the Catalina 22. The first 1000 hulls from the early 1970s are considerably faster than anything later. Please do not confuse my intent as an attempt to identify a faster boat generation for an unfair advantage. However I do not want to purchase a boat, settle at the rear of the fleet regatta after regatta, and then blame the boat for poor results. I am going to have enough doubts with my own skill, being away from the tiller for some time, that I do not need a lack of confidence in the boat. Is it worthwhile to purchase a used boat and invest some stomach/elbow grease to bring up to a competitive state or just spend the extra dollars buying new to avoid the questions? I am a very competitive person by nature, so I imagine racing every regatta within traveling distance of.
Very Respectfully,
More Cowbell

“Babies… before we're done here... y'all be wearing [FONT=&quot]gold[/FONT]-[FONT=&quot]plated diapers” -[/FONT]Bruce Dickinson
 
people sometimes ask me that question in person and i usually refer them to the classifieds on this forum; frequently one can find boats that are <10 years old and are very reasonably priced. I would recommend something from the last decade, though I still get beaten by plenty of boats older than that... IMO, its also true that as a boat ages and is used more it develops soft spots etc. from being sailed hard frquently... so it is possible a less used boat from '95 could be in better shape (and faster) than a very used boat from '01. Congrats on your "new sailor"!
 
Most folks tend to think a boat in good condition from any era can be competitive.

However, there's a dissenting contingent that says old boats get soft and go slow.

Certainly, a new sail will improve any boat and a blown out sail will slow any boat. So whatever era boat you get, get yourself a decent sail. Champion sailors often unload sails with only a couple regattas on them for in the neighborhood of half price.

All that being said, I think you'd have trouble finding anyone who would say that a boat 5 years old or newer in good condition will give much if anything away to any other boat.

So if you've got the money and you're worried about the "excuses" voice in your head, you'll certainly not go wrong with a '04 or newer boat.

If you want a *really* new boat, Laser dealers in North America are making a deal on boats used in the 2009 World's and Master's worlds.

Contact local dealer for details.
 
The speed of a Laser depends very much on how the hull has been treated. The older boats tend to be more solid than a lot of the newer boats (press an old boat in about 2 feet back from the bows and then do it on a new boats and tell me which one flexes more....)

I have had all ages of boat, my first was a 75,000 vintage (around 1980 or so), then I went to a 150,000 vintage (the fastest one I have owned in my opinion), a brand new boat (180,000 or so) and my current trusty steed which is a 121,000.

The 75,000 boat was perfectly capable of winning races at club level and served me well on my apprenticeship into the class. Once I started winning a bit I decided an upgrade was in order. Then once i started winning a lot i decided a brand new boat was in order...

Since then I have dallied in other classes and come back to the Laser in an older hull. It is nice to look back at the end of a race and see a lot of 'new' boats behind me. The hull I have has been treated well and was 'reconditioned' a few years ago (and sprayed, the underside is very very smooth). The boat is definitely not slower than a new one. In fact on certain points of sail (even with my overweight butt in it) I can leave much newer boats with lighter helms in trailing behind me.

The boat is a great leveller, One thing to note is that you tend to see plenty of older hulls (up to around 100,000) then from there you get quite a large gap to around 140,000 or so. This tells me that there were some issues with these hulls. There was also a batch of UK hulls arounf the 60,000 mark where the glue joining the hull and deck was dodgy, i would imagine most of these have been rectified by now.

My advice would be:

1) Read the buyers guide on here

2) Look at plenty of boats

3) Take someone who knows about the Lasers with you priorto parting with your hard earned cash....

Then sit back relax and enjoy (until the little 'un gets old enough to sail of course).....
 
I'm going to weigh in with a question related to this interesting thread. I have three Lasers. My '95 weighs 130 pounds, my '84 weighs 144 pounds, and my '81 weighs 152 pounds. I have read that, when selecting a used Laser, 130 pounds is the desired weight. Question: have some manufacturers generally produced heavier boats than others, are there some years when it is typical to have "heavier" boats? I have heard that in the "early years" of production weight differences of 25 pounds on either side of 130 pounds was considered allowable by the manufacturers. Is a hull that is heavy and stiff better than light and soft? Anyone's reflection on these issues would be appreciated.
 
ALL,

Thank you for your timely responses. I am at a big of a quandary. I either purchase...
-A used boat, keeping all the Laser Forum use boat guides in mind
-A Laser Worlds boat
-A new XD boat
I must keep in mind that I am new to Lasers, even thought I have been sailing most of my life. Saving some money would allow me to invest in other kit.

Very Respectfully,
More Cowbell
 
Also, if your profile is correct and you're going to be moving from East Coast to West Coast sometime in the next year, consider what a pain it is to move a Laser from coast to coast.

In that case you might do well to purchase a boat that's a few years old and sail it for just the season, then sell it before you move, probably for about what you paid for it.

Then based on the results of that "trial run" decide how new a boat you want to buy on arriving on the West Coast.
 
ALL,

Thank you for your timely responses. I am at a big of a quandary. I either purchase...
-A used boat, keeping all the Laser Forum use boat guides in mind
-A Laser Worlds boat
-A new XD boat
I must keep in mind that I am new to Lasers, even thought I have been sailing most of my life. Saving some money would allow me to invest in other kit.

Very Respectfully,
More Cowbell

Bear in mind if you buy a good condition used boat, sail and maintain it for the time you use it then you will probably get back exactly what you paid for it (I have done this with a couple of older boats). Then when you move (and if you like the boat) splash the cash and treat yourself to a new one :).
 
My opinion:

If you are just learning to sail and/or race, you need a boat that is sound. If it's a little soft in spots and leaks a little, that may be OK. The key is to not spend a lot of money (I would say $1500 max).

If you are an intermediate sailor, you want a boat that is relatively stiff and doesn't leak. Probably no more than ten years old. Spend maybe $2000-4000 depending on the age of the boat, overall condition, and goodies that come with it.

You don't NEED a brand-new boat unless you consistently place at the top of district-level regattas.

Myself, I bought a 2006 last year that was virtually unused. I bought it mostly for vanity, as I like having a shiny new boat.
 
Very interested in this myself, tempted to get back into laser sailing after a 5 year break from sailing. I've looked at 186 and 173 boats but nothing older as yet.

Reading this thread reminded me when I used to sail 161624 (back when 175 was new) a guy in my local club got a 173 and when I trialed it for a race it was noticable faster than mine. We went to a local event where a guy in a 142 boat was consistantly beating me, who thankfully let me sail his and it was also noticably faster than mine.

Ever since then I have steered away from 16xxxx boats. Maybe mine was leaking unknown to me or someone had poured concrete into it as a sick revenge plot, maybe it was just a dud make a little too heavy. Who knows...

Just a little more info to help confuse your decidion :D
 
My opinion:

If you are just learning to sail and/or race, you need a boat that is sound. If it's a little soft in spots and leaks a little, that may be OK. The key is to not spend a lot of money (I would say $1500 max).

If you are an intermediate sailor, you want a boat that is relatively stiff and doesn't leak. Probably no more than ten years old. Spend maybe $2000-4000 depending on the age of the boat, overall condition, and goodies that come with it.

You don't NEED a brand-new boat unless you consistently place at the top of district-level regattas.

Myself, I bought a 2006 last year that was virtually unused. I bought it mostly for vanity, as I like having a shiny new boat.

Could not of said it better. Depends on ability. If you are new to Lasers then you will trash your boat.
 

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