tieing the sail

lava

Member
Hi All,
Well I am waiting on my "practice race sail" from Intensity Sails. what is the best knot too use when tieing a sail instead of useing clips? what is the best guage of line to use? Thank You, Mike
 
Hey, I'm waiting on a sail from Intensity, too! Anyway, re: knots, I've used the surgeons knot when tying a sail on. Stays much more securely than a square knot. A great tip I picked up from an older post is to place a pencil alongside the spar and under the line as you're tying the knot, then slip the pencil out after the knot is tied. This leaves a perfect amount of slack for the line slide along the spar when adjusting sail shape.
 
Thanks for the info about the surgeons knot. does anyone know what size (guage) line? thanks, mike
 

1/8" no-stretch (like Vectran) for the corners and 1/16" for the others. Or visit the Opti (Sheets & Lines) section at APS.
 
By way of follow-up, I received my practice race sail from Intensity Sails this week absolutely love it. It is made of the right material, has the proper cut, shows excellent workmanship, etc. As a rec sailor, this is a fantastic deal. I'm adding this in case anyone else is wondering, like I was, whether these sails were worth buying. Again, I couldn't be more pleased.

Kevin
 
Nah, no reason to for my purposes. (That'll tell you what I mean by "rec sailor"!) I'll probably leave the sail blank and save the numbers for whoever might own the boat after me.
 
I have been looking into line to tie the sail. Is "low-strech" the same as "no-strech"? thanks , mike
 
Have you noted the brand and line names you’ve been looking at? Better yet, the line material and how it’s braided? Advertising references to “low stretch” and “no stretch” get thrown around like “king size” and “low calorie”, meaningless without quantification. Top rope makers give the specific numbers so a particular rope can be compared. ( http://www.neropes.com/Images/line_stretch_lg.gif )

For this application, in the length being used, the difference in round numbers between a quality low stretch and an ultra low stretch (in reality, there’s no such animal as “no stretch”) is probably going to be 0.1” to 0.05”. Stretch is often measured by pulling at ½ the rated breaking strength for a measured period of time. If your line is rated for 800 LB, stretch would be determined using a load of 400 LB. If the actual working load you are applying is less, the stretch will then be a factor of your actual load. What do you figure the pull is on any one sail tie <swag> 10 LB? Given the numbers above (0.1” @ 400 LB), at 10 LB basic old low stretch line would then ease up by, 0.0025”. Now, if you have deep pockets you could go for the ultra low stretch and only get, 0.00125” of movement. How thick is a sheet of typing paper – 0.005”?

Somehow I suspect once you get into the realm of quality rope as mentioned in the earlier posts, knot holding ability and UV resistance begin to overshadow the whole stretch issue - at least for sail ties.
 
Thanks Dan, very helpful. I had considered the UV aspect, but not the knotting propertys. While looking at ropes I noticed the strech raito, but your exsplanation made it relative to my task.
 
Re: tying the sail

What is the surgeons knot?
I thought I'd been tying it correctly, with the same number of turns top and bottom.

Google shows a whole lot of uses and variations for the surgeons knot. This is the original use, and the intended knot for the sail:

images
 
I have been looking into line to tie the sail. Is "low-strech" the same as "no-strech"? thanks , mike

no they are different - and are what they say, low is low and no is no.

If you have a recreational sail and don't want to spend a lot of money you can try the low stretch at places like REI.
 
no they are different - and are what they say, low is low and no is no.

Would you please show what you mean by, “low is low and no is no”? The “no” part is what I’m really curious about. :confused: What makes me wonder if such a thing exists is, New England Rope’s Pro-PBO Zylon is about as low stretch as it gets without going way way over the top into custom exotics. It’s termed “ultra low stretch” in their literature, but even it has a slight degree of elongation. ( http://www.neropes.com/Datasheets/MAR_pro.pdf ) Yale cordage shows some stretch in their top end ropes, ( http://www.yalecordage.com/html/guide2.html#racing ), and Marlow Ropes ( http://www.marlowropes.com/public/pageManager.cfm?page_id=317 ), and English Braids ( http://www.englishbraids.com/products/indexm.html )

Given the working length and load for this sail tie application the laces off my grandmother’s sneakers could probably meet the criteria for low stretch :rolleyes: , but it would be nice to see some qualifying technical data as rope types get tossed about to disambiguate the advertising hype and provide a basis for some meaningful objective comparison. ;)

Laser Performance lists the sail tie they recommend as English Braids’ Dynamic line (dyneema). 32 pieces @ 11” in length x 2 mm dia. (29-1/3’ total). ( http://laserperformance.dorydesigns.com/main/images/stories/pdfs/Sunfish/sf_specs.pdf ) ( http://www.englishbraids.com/products/marine/di.html )


If you have a recreational sail and don't want to spend a lot of money you can try the low stretch at places like REI.

Please elaborate some on which REI cordage you are recommending? On the REI web page under accessory cords I see PMI (Pigeon Mountain Industries) multi-cord, available in the desired 2 mm diameter, however that’s a 100% nylon – water absorbent and very stretchy – just the opposite characteristics from what you’d want for a sail tie. :eek: Is there another brand or style you know of that REI carries and is more appropriate just isn’t being shown? :)
 
Getting a little off subject? All the poster asked was a recommendation for sail ties. All of the techno stuff is important (and facinating) but for a Sunfish sail tie, almost any halfway decent line will work.The line specified as "low stretch" is more than enough. Just go with a small diameter for a skosh less windage.

Save a couple of bucks and have a beer.
 
OK, In set on the "sail ties". Could someone recomend, by brandname and model, their choise of control lines? thanks mike
 
Getting a little off subject? All the poster asked was a recommendation for sail ties. All of the techno stuff is important (and facinating) but for a Sunfish sail tie, almost any halfway decent line will work.
Yeah...On this topic, this is a good time for a new "thread". :p
 

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