Not doing penalty turns?

S

sk8ingsailor

Member
I was recently at the junior olympics, and in 5th or 6th place downwind. There was another sailor behind me who was trying to cover me. I kept swerving back and forth to try to get him to stop covering me. Thinking my mission was complete, I headed DDW. The other sailor released he could not pass to leeward, so he tried to go to windward. In this process, he hit my rudderhead very lightly, but still enough to notice. Mind you we were about 5-6 boatlengths infront of another 5-6 boats. He could have had easily done his turns and not lost many places. I didn't say anything just because I didn't want to be "that guy". This is not the only time this has happened to me, and no other sailors seem to bother doing their turns. What gives? Neither of us were in contention for first, second or third, but we both did place in the top ten. I would expect him to have done his turns, especially since we were both doing fairly well.
 
Yes he should have done turns... But by not saying anything such as "Protest" he might have figured you didn't see it or didn't think it was worth doing circles for (sort of a no harm/no foul) Again, no excuse for him.

Bottom line, if someone fouls you and you want them to do turns, tell them so - It doesn't make you "that guy".


Were you heading down on him while he was trying to pass you to leeward to keep him from passing to leeward ?
 
49208 said:
Yes he should have done turns... But by not saying anything such as "Protest" he might have figured you didn't see it or didn't think it was worth doing circles for (sort of a no harm/no foul) Again, no excuse for him.

Bottom line, if someone fouls you and you want them to do turns, tell them so - It doesn't make you "that guy".


Were you heading down on him while he was trying to pass you to leeward to keep him from passing to leeward ?
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Not at all. He had a slight overlap so he really had to "cut" it.
 
I was asking prior to him being overlapped with you.

I figured you weren't sailing down on him while he was overlapped since that would mean you were breaking the rule to keep clear
 
Another important point, when there is contact between to boats, there HAS to be a protest. Sometimes the RC will protest both boats in a college event for this. You wouldn't have been that guy. you'd be following the rules.
 
Yeah, I will defiantly protest next time. It just amazes me that I'm not the kid that this happens too. I'd say at any big Junior regatta, about 90% of the kids who foul people dont do turns.
 
I applaud all of the "that guy"s out there that have the guts to make a protest.
They might help clean up the sport.
 
While out doing some practice races at the club a couple of weeks ago, one of the kids hit the mark. Another kid said, "Joe,* did you know you hit the mark?"

Joe said yes and did a turn. I liked the way the first kid treated the matter, polite and non-aggressive. Just informing. I'll try to add it to my racing tools.



*name changed
 
Merrily said:
While out doing some practice races at the club a couple of weeks ago, one of the kids hit the mark. Another kid said, "Joe,* did you know you hit the mark?"

Joe said yes and did a turn. I liked the way the first kid treated the matter, polite and non-aggressive. Just informing. I'll try to add it to my racing tools.
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Agreed that the first kid found a nice solution. McCain and Obama should consider him for the VP shortlist :).
Remember though that the RRS require the use of the word "protest" for a protest to be accepted for consideration after the race is over.

 
asking someone if they hit the mark is illegal under outside assistance rule. You either protest or you don't. You can only speak to other sailors if asserting your rights or comfirming a request for room. The obligations are clear. Either kids learn the rules or they don't. There is no "nice" on the course. There aren't any ISAF rules for kids. If we allow the edges to be blurred we only hurt our sport with more politics than we need and may as well stay on shore and draw names out of a hat as to who wins based on who is the nicest.
 
chainsaw said:
asking Someone If They Hit The Mark Is Illegal Under Outside Assistance Rule. You Either Protest Or You Don't. You Can Only Speak To Other Sailors If Asserting Your Rights Or Comfirming A Request For Room. The Obligations Are Clear. Either Kids Learn The Rules Or They Don't. There Is No "nice" On The Course. There Aren't Any Isaf Rules For Kids. If We Allow The Edges To Be Blurred We Only Hurt Our Sport With More Politics Than We Need And May As Well Stay On Shore And Draw Names Out Of A Hat As To Who Wins Based On Who Is The Nicest.
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Ok.
 
What's wrong with a guy pointing out another hit the mark? maybe it was a slight touch and the kid wasn't sure there was contact. What's next chainsaw, you going to protest a kid because his mom gave him a ride to the club, constituting outside assistance? (joke) I think maybe there is a line between following the rules, trying to have fun while following those rules, and being a sea lawyer. Isn't that the point of this thread, somebody didn't want to be that guy?
 
Chainsaw said:
asking someone if they hit the mark is illegal under outside assistance rule. You either protest or you don't.
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Not sure this qualifies as 'outside assistance' as both parties are in the race..... Like you said, if you want to protest the boat then you have every right, its your choice.

Chainsaw said:
You can only speak to other sailors if asserting your rights or comfirming a request for room.
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I'm interested to read this rule if you can let me know where it is please. If this is the case then I will be able to protest most boats in my local fleet in every race.

Chainsaw said:
There is no "nice" on the course. If we allow the edges to be blurred we only hurt our sport with more politics than we need and may as well stay on shore and draw names out of a hat as to who wins based on who is the nicest.
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Being 'nice' has nothing to do with it. To me, giving a fellow competitor an opportunity to admit they hit a mark is applying the principles of sportsmanship and fair play. However, if they fail to admit their error then I will absolutely announce 'Protest'.

As fate would have it I recently brushed the windward mark with my boom while rounding in 1st place. The 2nd place boat simply stated 'touched the mark', I acknowledged and prior to the next mark completed my penalty. I wouldn't classify what my competitor did as 'nice', rather a warning that should I not complete a penalty (which I was going to do anyway) that they would protest. This is in the spirit of sportsmanship and fair play, IMHO.
 
Someone must always spin. At some (most now? I dunno) regattas with a jury, if the jury sees a foul committed, they will blow one whistle. No flags, no blame, just one whistle. If no one spins, the jury will protest and (I believe) both sailors will be thrown out.

While racing should be taken seriously, there is really no need for animosity. Point out that a mark has been hit, if the other competitor doesn't comply, or chooses not to spin, then you hail protest (loud enough for other boats to hear). In a collision situation, simply hail protest. Don't lose your cool and start yelling and swearing at the other person, because in all likelihood, that will be slower than the initial collision/rule infraction.
 
Shatty007 said:
Don't lose your cool and start yelling and swearing at the other person, because in all likelihood, that will be slower than the initial collision/rule infraction.
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And this also brings rule 69 into question.

A friend of mine was banned for 6 weeks by Yachting Australia for abusing another boat (Farr 40 regatta)
 
As fate would have it I recently brushed the windward mark with my boom while rounding in 1st place. The 2nd place boat simply stated 'touched the mark', I acknowledged and prior to the next mark completed my penalty. I wouldn't classify what my competitor did as 'nice', rather a warning that should I not complete a penalty (which I was going to do anyway) that they would protest. This is in the spirit of sportsmanship and fair play, IMHO.[/QUOTE]

Prior to the next mark or at your first opportunity once you sailed clear of your competitors? If you sailed on and took your turn at your leisure you did not properly exonorate yourself.
 
Rob B said:
Prior to the next mark or at your first opportunity once you sailed clear of your competitors? If you sailed on and took your turn at your leisure you did not properly exonorate yourself.
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Fair question Rob and just to clarify, it was a relatively short course (very light winds) and with a swarm of boats directly astern to port and starboard it took me some time to get clear of everyone to complete the penalty without adversly effecting my competitors.
 
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