Are older Laser sailors Role Models?

Rob B

Well-Known Member
The tail end of my "Gear thread" turned into more of a philosophical banter about being a role model for safety and other things to younger sailors.

I think this deserves it's own thread as we have a lot of juniors that not only sail in our class, but post on this forum as well.

I started racing at 12 years old on big PHRF boats and most of my good friends were adults, (folks in their late 20's on up to early 50's). Back in the early 80's I got exposed to a lot of things hanging around these guys and gals. I would not change those experiences for anything!

I saw a lot of stupid things done and some smart things done by my "mentors". I'd like to think I was able to recognize the not so smart things enough at the time to not emulate them, but honestly can't remember.

What do you guys think? What's cool and not cool for us older folks to do? If we sail fast and take chances are you, (as a younger sailor) prone to try what you see or do you have your own standards that you refuse to cross?

I like to think that I make an effort to keep cool on the race course and not scream or cuss and always do a turn if I think I'm wrong in a situation. On land I like to have a few drinks and swap the daily "War stories" with my fellow competitiors and freely give advice if asked.

It would be interesting to know what the older folks think about while on the course and what the younger folks think about what the older folks say/do.
 
...I'd like to think I was able to recognize the not so smart things enough at the time to not emulate them, but honestly can't remember...

I can remember noticing the not so smart things and not doing them, and I made up some of my own mistakes too. I've never had formal sailing instruction so never had a mentor or role model. My induction consisted of my father outlining a "code of conduct on the water", not just sailing, through comments and deed and I was left to it after that.

I really don't know if what I do makes any difference to youngsters who see me in action, I suspect not, since they behave completely differently. They appear to be collective animals, i.e. if mates are doing it, they have to do it too and it's always someone else's fault if things go wrong or nobody's in particular. (Mind you, that is common to some older types too.) I've watched the opti kids come in from a race and bay like piglets for their mommies to bring their dollys down to the water. LOL Kids. Then I've seen laser sailors capsize their boats in the sand and let the gunwales and sails grind back and forth as thousands of dollars worth of equipment degrades. I don't know what jobs these kids have a 13 but they must earn more than me.

I'm sure there are a number of youngsters who do not believe they're owed something, or some act of assistence, but I haven't seen it yet. Which is probably more a sad reflection of my area than anything else. It's possible these kids are trained to not touch or do anything by the money-men behind their boats. Maybe they're told they're too weak, too clumsy and too slow to help stow their gear? Perhaps they're told that mom's role is to be there when they return and if she doesn't snap to it, then yell louder at her? Exactly what value there is in doing it "right" is becoming more blurred as liberal politics spreads over the world.

If some kid comes up to me and askes how to rig the outhaul or tie a bowline I'll show them, and if they're drowning somewhere I'll still go get them, but I'm through worrying about the next generation or anyone else who visibly doesn't give damn. They can ask if they want to learn.
 
my rolemodles are older sailers mainly because no one else sails, dont think they'r that old. ones just turning 30 and others about 35 both big infulances on me n they dont try teach me to sail safe or stuff they teach me to sail to get most out of a boat ect

and i think last two paragraphs of post above are realy forced on a small area, i seen kids with opi's who take care of there boats more than i or you would because its the first thing they feel that is there and i seen a kid who realy dont care about it so for every one who does there is always going to be some one around the world who dont care about there boat,

it is not only the younger kids who are like that any marina you go to there is always gona be alot of boats which have been abandoned or not taken care the way they should be.
 
I don't know. Most of my interaction with youth sailors are those sailing Lasers and Radials on the race course. Generally they are better sailors than I am, so there's not really much I can "mentor" them with sailing-wise. I guess I can set a good example by taking care of my equipment, doing my penalty turns, and not shouting my mouth off. However when they are half way up the race course, they aren't paying much attention to me.
 
I guess the constituents have spoken Rob. 130 views. 2 posts.

My head is bloodied but unbowed.


Happy sailing
Mike


It kills me too how so many folks want to "look", but not chip in their 2 cents worth. There are 100's of registered users of this forum and it looks like about 20 or so actually post things. I'd love to see more folks post their opinions and experiences. It would broaden the forum.
 
Older sailors are definitely role models. I learned to sail in a family run sailing program where the sailing gods were my friends' parents. They taught me the rules and how to rig and sail, but also what good sportsmanship and personal responsibility are. I am continually learning from older sailors and find it inspiring that they can and want to find the time to practice and race at their age. I try to help younger sailors as well and it is very rewarding. Teaching others is also a great way to learn.
 
My dad taught me to sail on a Sunfish, showed me the rules and the respect to the
equipment and to others. When I came back from the Army he had this Aqua Cat
It got me going again because we all surfed thru Jr. Hi till we grad. When I started
racing Hobies their were few older role models but I learned from the young guns
they showed me stuff amd of course I was to far behind them on the course. When
I started doing better I showed the new guys the stuff. I see the kids throws stuff
around and abuse the equipment that just irks me and as Rob noted it is the parents
role to be the role model. Maybe the todays generation as a role model is a prof.
ball player my boys are grown no grandkids yet. Rob is right it is to blasted hot down
here anyway.....
 
ive just gone 21 and only really been seriously at it for 2 yrs and i try and take on alll of the older sailor's advice as possible. i think its a quick qay to cram alot of experience into my own sailing in a shorter time. they have been a great help and we can all learn alot.
 
My parents were cruiser sailors. The racing bug bit me and when they bought my first laser for me. I treated it as if I needed it to last for 30 years. My gear upgrades would come on birthdays and christmas. I kept crewing PHRF and my skipper had been a Sunfish NA champ in the late 50's/early 60's. He was my first mentor on dingy sailing. Later a group of guys started sailing lasers on our home lake and formed their own laser specific club. It was headed up by an older guy that had several OD championships under his belt. We would run college type races for hours on end in ANY weather and end the day in his house drinking cider and having round table discussions regarding rules, rigging, tactics and boat speed. At the time I was the youngest member of that group. I was like a sponge and soaked it all in. There were no coaches outside of college in those days. Now that I'm an "elder" sailor the kids really don't seem to care, (in general) for "advice" and seem to prefer to go their own way even if it's wrong. I find unsolicited recomendations are not very well received. I also have noticed a complete disregard for the rules with the younger sailors. This is the main reason I prefer to sail Master specific events and stay away from the open events.
 
My parents were cruiser sailors. The racing bug bit me and when they bought my first laser for me.


seems abit like me, mum and dad cant race at all but when i was down helping them peal the antifoul off there new boat james saw i was comited n offered me a spot racing his bh36 n from that he tought me alot n got me into lasers as well
 
Exactly what value there is in doing it "right" is becoming more blurred as liberal politics spreads over the world.
Politics has nothing to do with it. You've diverted the focus of the discussion by being fallacious and inflamatory. Saying such things as what you did is not only untrue, but an invalid form of reasoning and unneccesarily inflamatory.

I'm a 43 yr old who learned to sail 4 years ago. Nobody in my family sailed and I did not grow up in a sailing environment. Everything about sailing has been new to me, like a kid in school. If it were not for my own initiative and the guidance of ALL the resources available, I'd never have learned to sail. More experienced sailors have provided me invaluable guidance about maintenance and technique, regardless of their age. However, regardless of whoever told me something or what I read in a book or on a forum, my learning, including how to get my own dolly without losing my boat, it was up to me to do it and learn from experience. Boom-induced bumps on the head are a perfect example of something that both others warn us about and we learn from our own OTW experience.

As a high school teacher, let me tell you, kids are kids and learn by experience best, but not without guidance. And, like all people, we learn what we need first (immediacy), and then what will help us in the future (proactivity). The best teachers don't tell kids what to do, but rather facilitate independent learning. Instead of saying, "Do this do that!" we suggest modifications, resources, alternative ways of thinking, and lead them to insights which they internalize because they are their own. Of course, kids will behave exactly in the way they are taught. If they learn to be independent thinkers, they will seek out good advice and resources for learning. If teachers and parents coddle kids and "deliver" facts and advice as truth, then kids really aren't learning. But, they do become excellent parrots. Research and my own and other teachers like me have shown time and time again that the best learning is student driven and oriented, and the worst (i.e., BAD) teaching is teacher driven and centered. If I told my students how to do everything or what facts they "need" to know, they'd do it or know for one day and not be able to do it or regurgitate it well the next. When I guide them to learn without giving them answers or knowing exactly what they will produce ahead of time, they will almost always be able to use the same skills the next day and next year and even be able to effectively teach what they have learned to others. This is especially true when there are innumerable variables such as there are in sailing.

Am I liberal or conservative? It really doesn't matter, especially if we're sailing the same boat. Like Lasers, humans are one design. It's up to the people who work with them to maximize their potential in the best ways possible, not the worst.
 
Politics has everthing to do with it. Nothing inflammatory about it. I don't like the attitde of everything is ok because [insert justification here] and that attitude comes from liberal quarters. That's the plain fact. It's not the fault of liberal minded people, it's just liberal minds being liberal. But once you get outside the classroom or off the beach, the wind and tide don't care what you think. You can argue with the wind all you like but it will still do as it pleases. You can carry an idea of fairness in your head if you like but the sea will still drown you without prejudice. People are nothing to nature. Nature abides it's own rules and man can't change them. If we don't make it clear to kids that the rules don't change, and if we actively instill in them a sense of self superiority and that nature and life is fair then we send them out ill prepared.
 
Stung into action by Rob B here is my first reply on this board.
I came to sailing in my late fifties so I am definately an older sailor.
At first I looked to the best sailors, young or old, and found that they were rarely in conflict with other boats and always managed to find clear air. Their conduct on and off the water seemed to be as high as their sailing ability. After the start however these sailors were always too far ahead for me to closely copy their style/tactics etc.
When I was learning, and starting to creep up through the fleet, I sailed alongside sailors who exhibited very aggressive and sometimes illegal actions. It was tempting to emulate them simply because of a sense of unfairness, since my club did not encourage formal protests. As I improved and began to expect to sail near the front I saw a different side and appreciated the high levels of skill and sportsmanship exhibited. I am pleased to say that I am now up amongst them.
I suppose the answer to the original question for me is that I was beneficially influenced by both the older skilled sailors and the young hot-shots I found at the top of the club. I may also add the kids at my club are very self-reliant and good natured and have a good rapport with the older members. Our young kids tend to come through the sea scout route and then go on to crew for older members evenutually getting their own boats.
 
Chainsaw, where did "self superiority" come from? I thought kids all had a self esteem problem these days. I would appreciate it if you kept your "all evil stems from Liberals" attitude on Hannity and Colmes aor FOX news. I was raised by "pinko commie liberals" (parents self description) and they never told me the world was fair......
 
Please remember, the discussion of politics is not allowed on this forum. Future political comments will be deleted.

Thank you,
 
It kills me too how so many folks want to "look", but not chip in their 2 cents worth. There are 100's of registered users of this forum and it looks like about 20 or so actually post things. I'd love to see more folks post their opinions and experiences. It would broaden the forum.

OK, here goes, I'm a Laser sailor by accident!

I first set foot on a yacht in July 2005, a friend asked me if I would like to try a sailing holiday. Having never tried it, I said Yes!

That first week was superb! I learned how to sail from guys between 18 and 25 years my senior (I was 39 at the time) and the first time I took the helm I was on a Sun Odyssey 43!

I did the July charter for a couple of years, my interest in navigating and running a ship increasing all the time, so I then did RYA Day Skipper theory as night classes followed by the practical course. It was suggested that I would improve as a sailor if I learned to sail dinghies, so the next phase developed.

I went to Antigua in January where I did my RYA level 1 dinghy course, my plan being to crew Albacores at my local boat club this year. Then eBay poked its nose in by showing me a 27 yr old Laser with a Kermit Green hull at a really good price.

The rest, as they say, is history. I've owned a Laser for a couple of months and have finished last in the club races apart from a week past Wednesday when the race was abandoned (no wind) while I was sitting 5th out of 10!

So I'm an older Laser sailor who is a fairly new sailor (and very new Laser sailor).

What can I offer to younger sailors? Probably a grounded approach to racing; I accept that I'm probably going to finish last in most of the races I enter but I don't judge myself on the position but on how I sailed ("it matters not if I won or lost, but how I played the game":- Kipling) so if a young sailor is frustrated at not progressing as fast as they would wish I can probably talk them through their feelings and help them move forward.

Hope the above makes sense,

Al.
 
Politics has nothing to do with it. You've diverted the focus of the discussion by being fallacious and inflamatory. Saying such things as what you did is not only untrue, but an invalid form of reasoning and unneccesarily inflamatory.
Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much.......
 
I disagree with the Topic question specifically.

From what I have seen, More experienced Laser sailors are Role Models, that is, more experienced in the boat. This usually comes with age, but not necessarily.

I'm from the same club as Tom Slingsby, he is everyone's role model at our club, we have a few ex-World Masters Champions also but it seems when Tom is there racing, everyone spends more time watching and emulating his sailing than sailing their own race.

Tom is only 23 so he's by no means an older Laser Sailor. Albeit, he is the best Laser Sailor out of any of us

Probably an exceptional case compared to the generalization that Rob was trying to make, but just another way to look at it.

When I first started in lasers 4 or 5 years ago, the older sailors were role models, but only really because I was the youngest, as I moved through the fleet my role models changed to being the more experienced sailors rather than just the age of them
 
I disagree with the Topic question specifically.

From what I have seen, More experienced Laser sailors are Role Models, that is, more experienced in the boat. This usually comes with age, but not necessarily.

I'm from the same club as Tom Slingsby, he is everyone's role model at our club, we have a few ex-World Masters Champions also but it seems when Tom is there racing, everyone spends more time watching and emulating his sailing than sailing their own race.

Tom is only 23 so he's by no means an older Laser Sailor. Albeit, he is the best Laser Sailor out of any of us

Probably an exceptional case compared to the generalization that Rob was trying to make, but just another way to look at it.

When I first started in lasers 4 or 5 years ago, the older sailors were role models, but only really because I was the youngest, as I moved through the fleet my role models changed to being the more experienced sailors rather than just the age of them

Good Point! The guys in front can be/are every bit as much of a role model as older/more experienced folks.
 
Hello,

Iam 23 years old, bought my first laser at 15 from an older guy (50 at that time) he was/is the sailor everybody looked up to. After 6 years of lasers, and 3lasers further in my sailingdays, he stil is the man i look up to.So is my trainer, same age, and a smart man with lots of sailing and competion knowledge.

This year we started a youthtraining program at our sailingclub, kids from 13 to 19 and me as the 23year old who sails along, but also coordinates those trainingdays/weeks. Those kids are mostly better than me, but is see the respect and the way they look up to their trainer and even to me, especialy the younger once, when they just started in laser they all came to me for rigging advice and some tips. Must say, we have great kids in our traininggroup, i know it could be different.

I always had to pay my own way to be able to sail, so you wont see me tearing my boat apart, if one of our groupsailors do that, they have me and their trainer on their case (happened once).

Saw some topsailors at the europeans in nieuwpoort, seeing them sail, pretty damn cool. I found them very nice and down to earth to. Slingsby and Goodison, to name two, very friendly nice guys.
 

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