Rudder Mount Come Loose

Looper

New Member
My 1976 vintage wooden tiller is a bit shoogly at the best of times but yesterday I thought it was even worse than usual. I returned to shore to discover that the lower rudder mount had worked its way free on one side with the 2 screws on that side both coming loose. The thread in the 2 holes in the transom fibre glass is obviously stripped. I guess there is a forum thread somewhere discussing how to fix this but I cannot find it. If anybody knows where the thread is or has any advice please let me know.

I was thinking of just filling the hole with epoxy and then drill it out to the right aperture size for the screws again? I have an inspection port in front of the footwell (not much use) but none at the rear.

My only consolation is that this is the end of the sailing season down under anyway so if she is laid up for a while I won't miss much.
 

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I'd try the easy fix first, then proceed to the hard fix, if that didn't work.

The easy fix is to overdrill the gudgeons with a drill press, then go one or two sizes oversized on the mounting screws, with a good dollop of sealant on the screws.
 
There is a plywood backing piece on the inside - this is what the screw is biting into. There's a good chance the plywood is rotted. You can confirm this by drilling one of the holes oversize and looking at the wood pieces on the drill bit, if the pieces are wet and clumped, it rotted.

If that's the case, I would be thinking hard about an inspection port in the rear deck and either replacing the plywood backer or at least thru-bolting with big washers on the plywood side.
 
You can drill out the existing holes oversize and replace them with wooden dowel rod - something relatively thick like 1/4" or 3/8" diameter. I would use epoxy to glue them in place. You could then drill new smaller holes in the dowel rod for the mouting screws.
 
I had the same problem - I ended up cutting an inspection port (I had to do it for another repair anyway), cleaning up the rotted plywood, and some blobs of thickened epoxy covered with a layer or two of glass inside the hull. Worked fine.
 
OK, thanks for the suggestions.

At least I have a bit of time to plan my repair strategy before next season.
 
Well 4 and half months later and i have managed to find an excuse to avoid this job every weekend and now I missed a good weekends sailing last week.

I need to put the inspection port on the rear deck. The centre-line is the only really nice flat part of the rear deck. The rest is a bit warped but still solid. I mount it 5 or 6 inches forward it will not interfere with the tiller. But LooserLu says in this thread not to put it on the centre-line.

http://www.laserforum.org/storage-inspection-port-location-t4237.html

Why is the centreline a no-no and how far off the centre line does it have to be?
 
Sux... Mine are off the centerline, I did it because it seemed a flatter mating surface for the sealant and screws.

The inspection port is certainly the way to go to fix this issue right. I actually had this happen and dipped a golf tee in sealant and tapped it into the old hole. After it dried I broke it off flush and drilled a tiny pilot through it, put the screws back in. Though it's lasted two seasons, but I think I will really fix it this winter.
 
Besides the deck being flatter off centerline, avoid the centerline if possible as it can also interfere with the tiller if the tiller sits low and the port sits high.
 
If you're back in the sailing season, my suggestion remains, try the easy fix described above first. If that doesn't work, start doing inspection ports, backing plate replacements, etc... Don't lose prime sailing time doing repairs.
 
The key prerequisite for any repair is to make sure the plywood is dry. If the the boat's been sitting for a few months that shouldn't be an issue.

I'd also second trying one of the "glue a plug in place and re-drill" solutions. It's easy and fast, and probably will hold better than the original. The downside is if the plywood really has rotted significantly, there may not be much for the plug to bond to.
 
The exact same thing happened to me a couple days ago.... I just cleaned up the holes a bit with a drill an sandpaper, and then squished some Marine-Tex epoxy putty in there.

Next morning I drilled a new pilot hole through the middle of the epoxy , squirted some silicone sealant in there, and put the screw back on... worked great.

No sense going crazy with inspection ports for something as simple as a screw.
 
Thanks for the suggestions of just re-drilling the screw-hole. I would quite like to put a port in anyway for maintenance going forwards as she is very old.

The way the old wooden tiller sits on this setup means I can put the port on the centreline and it won't interfere with the tiller as long as the port is 5 or 6 inches forward.

Also the centreline is the most flat part. Sounds odd but it is. The rear deck on either side is a bit warped with age. But the centreline has about a 6 inch strip of perfect flatness. I am worried that this may be due to a structural member under the centreline keeping it flat and that if I cut a hole there I will ruin something.

So does anybody know if there is a structural reason for not cutting a hole in the rear deck on the centre-line?
 
Decided to cut the hole off centre on the left. Pretty easy with an electric jig saw.

You can see the old foam block got in the way of the blade.
 

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Decided to cut the old foam out and replace with plastic bottles or something.

Takes a while one piece at a time. Serated edge bread knife works best. Wear gloves cause the straggly fibre glass round the hole cuts your knuckles.
 

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After all that I found another block the same size!

My hands were bleeding so I just left that one in.

The blocks were damp on the surface underneath the plastic cover even though the boat has been airing with ports open for 4 months.

But the foam was not saturated at all and was bone dry inside and quite light. Maybe did not need removing at all.
 

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When you use the port as a template to draw a circle to cut the hole take note of any stepped expansion in gauge or else you will need to gingerly expand the hole slightly with the jig-saw
 

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This is the inside of the transom where the screws had stripped and come loose (holes on the right). You can see the screws on the left still holding that side of the gudgeon. The material being used for giving purchase to the screw thread is glassed in. Some kind of block of wood I guess. Could not inspect the state so decided to go for nuts and bolts instead.


1/4" wrong answer
3/16" correct
 

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Had to stack the washers to get a big enough area to share the load. The nuts and bolts are stainless but the washers were only available in galvanised so I smeared silicone all over them. Makes them much easier to work with inside the boat too since they stick together.
 

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Filled the holes with silicone from the outside until it dripped through and covered the bolts in silicone before putting them through.

These are the washer stacks and nuts in place on the inside. Resmothered in more silicone
 

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The reason the deck was warped was due to separation of laminate from foam core. Bolting the port down tight flattens it again.

Fitting the port is pretty easy. Lots of silicone to seal it.
 

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It is handy to be able to have a look round inside with a digital camera.
 

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My tip for placement would be a couple of inches wide of the centre-line, as I have got it :) and also an inch aft of the traveller, as I have not got it :(

Discovered this after pulling the traveller tight and realising the traveller block is maybe going to catch on the port edge in light air.

Will be interested to see if this works or if I will regret not using screws or hunting for stainless washers.

(also note the cool gaffer tape holding some old camping foam over the old wooden square-section grab rails. this held for a whole season and worked great. No bruised calf muscles!)
 

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Excellent pictures!

A few tips:

A webcam or other small video cam is also great for getting visibility in there while you are working.

I know this is completely ghetto... but rather than spend money on cubitainers for emergency flotation in mine, I've been tying empty 2-liter bottles together and putting them in there :D (ETA - I just noticed you already said you were considering this... cheap minds think alike ;) )

I put a bunch of masking tape around my inspection ports to save my arms a bit... unfortunately I didn't think of this first thing either.

If you have other delaminated deck spots, you can repair them by drilling a few holes through the outer deck surface (just the top layer... try not to drill into the foam any more than necessary to get the hole made) and injecting epoxy between the foam and deck. I used a west system syringe with the tip cut back halfway and epoxy thickened to ketchup consistency. Then put some weight on top to keep the deck/core together while the epoxy cures.
It helps with the mess if you put down masking tape over the area you'll be drilling first... so any excess epoxy gets on the tape and not on your deck
 

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