Laser Logo question

powergroove

Member
Im building trophies for the D12 regatta in a couple of weeks and wanted to incorporate the Laser symbol and logo into them. My vinyl graphics guy says he doesnt want to infringe on the copyrighted logo, but I disagree that this is a sanctioned Laser event and we should be able to use it for trophy purposes.
whats the ruling?
 
Im building trophies for the D12 regatta in a couple of weeks and wanted to incorporate the Laser symbol and logo into them. My vinyl graphics guy says he doesnt want to infringe on the copyrighted logo, but I disagree that this is a sanctioned Laser event and we should be able to use it for trophy purposes.
whats the ruling?

The Laser symbol is trademarked by Vanguard in the US (actually trademarked by the company that owns Vanguard called Quarter Moon, Inc.). You should call Vanguard to ask about using the symbol on trophies unless someone else on the forum comes forward with a clearer answer.
 
If it bothers Vanguard that a race trophy uses the logo from a boat designed and marketed for racing, they really need to get into another line of business.
 
Open the negotiations with Vanguard by asking for $2000 worth of sponsorship for your regatta in compensation for the superb job you are doing in marketing their products, and saying that you are prepared to display their Laser logo on T-shirts, trophies, flags, banners, NOR, SIs, and all boats' sails and hulls for no extra charge.

Be prepared to settle for them giving you 20 key fobs and permission to use the logo on trophies.
 
Im building trophies for the D12 regatta in a couple of weeks and wanted to incorporate the Laser symbol and logo into them. My vinyl graphics guy says he doesnt want to infringe on the copyrighted logo, but I disagree that this is a sanctioned Laser event and we should be able to use it for trophy purposes.
whats the ruling?

I've asked this question myself at the national level and was told that this is an acceptable use. Ask Sherri Campbell, ILCA-NA secretary at One Design Management, to set your mind at ease. [email protected]
 
For what it's worth, the majority of the trophies in my huge collection of Laser regatta awards do display the Laser logo. Including the one of which I'm most proud, my one and only first place in age group award at a masters regional championship.

And those that don't have the logo, frankly, look cheap and nasty. Almost as if the organizers couldn't afford to go to a shop capable of engraving or printing the logo.
 
I don't think they'll have a problem with using the logo, but you should check with them or Sherri Campbell first.
I think the use of the Laser logo on trophies would fall in to the category of nominative use, but bear in mind that nominative use is just a defense to a use that otherwise constitutes infringement. Nominative use occurs when use of a term is necessary for purposes of identifying another producer's product, not the user's own product. The basic idea is that use of a trademark is sometimes necessary to identify and talk about another party's products and services. So, by putting the logo on a trophy you are, in effect, saying "this is a trophy for Laser sailing," not "this trophy was produced by Vanguard." But, this defense appears to fall apart if the use suggests endorsement or sponsorship by the trademark owner (which it might if the logo was used on a trophy).
 
Knowing nothing about copyright, I wonder what would happen if you extracted part of a Health and Safety sign. e.g.

CLS4-1.jpg


http://www.ehs.uiuc.edu/images/radpics/lasersigns/CLS4-1.jpg

But, as others have said, I'm sure they would have no problem with your using the logo on trophies for Laser events (provided you are not using it to make profit).

Ian
 
It's not a copyright issue. Vanguard owns the trademark on this symbol:
799px-Sailing_laser.svg.png

in association with: sailboats, sailboat parts and accessories; namely, sailboat structural parts including beams, booms and boom hardware; masts and mast hardware; hulls, hull sections and hull hardware; rudders, rudder components and rudder assemblies; tillers, tiller components and tiller assemblies; hull fittings including drain plugs, cleats, bailers, coamings, centerboards, keels and cudgeons; boat paddles; fitted and semi-fitted covers for boats and boat cockpits; and sailboat rigging including rings, halyards, stays, spreaders, pulleys, blocks, lines, shackles, ratchets, bolts, nuts, washers, eyes, furlings, bridles, trapezes, hooks and hinges, sailboat sails, and storage bags for boat spars and sailboats.

If you excerpt the laser safety symbol and use in association with any of the above, you are still technically infringing on their trademark.
 
This is not legal advice (ask SailChris instead), but my understanding is, in layman's terms, that if you were to put the laser symbol on a T-shirt and sell the shirts, Vanguard would come after you. But if you give the T-shirts away during a regatta for instance, Laser/Vanguard wouldn't huff and puff. Definitely nice to ask for permission though, to put yourself and the trophy guy at ease, as has been pointed out.
 
My guess? After 25 years of letting any old regatta host put the Laser logo on any flyer, trophy, t shirt, hat , scoresheet, buoy, or wherever the laser sailors have damn well pleased to use it..
Vanguard almost certainly has no control anymore over that particular use of their trademarked Laser logo.

Initiating a lawsuit would place Vanguard in the horribly bad for its reputation and good customer relations position of suing someone who is otherwise gleefully promoting and consuming Vanguard's products.

A legal proceeding would also perhaps cause a pissed off judge to visit the validity of the entire claim of Vanguard to any control what so ever of its Laser trademark.

Translation?? I doubt Vanguard is going to bust up 35 years of good feeling and PROFIT by suing the hosts of a Laser regatta.
 
It doesn't hurt to ask for permission. In layman's terms, it's like walking across someone's backyard to get to the beach. If you have permission then it's no big deal. If you are sneaking across the yard, hiding in the bushes, hoping you don't end up with an ass full of buckshot, then you might regret it.

The strange thing about trademark law is that if you don't actively enforce your trademark, you can lose it. That's why you hear about silly lawsuits like Disney suing a daycare center for painting Mickey and Goofy on their cafeteria walls.

And, just because the trademark has been used elsewhere before does not mean that the next use is OK. I think the Laser symbol still has a really strong association (as an indicator of origin and authenticity) with products produced by Vanguard, and we as Laser sailors should respect that. Nominative uses appear to have been accepted by Vanguard in the past, but I wouldn't want to risk getting an ass full of buckshot when permission seems to be so liberally granted.

Oh, and by the way, I am not a lawyer, and none of my posts on this message board should be construed as legal advice in any way. I have no idea what I am talking about, and you would be a fool to rely on me.
 
If you put the logo on a trophy and you are selling the trophies as a 'Laser trophy' then they would have a problem with it as it is not a licensed product and you were not sanctioned to do so.

If you are holding and event for Lasers and the trophies have the logo on it because of the class it represents it would be no problem.

I recieved many Tshirts with the Laser logo on it with the event name and date and never heard anyone getting sued because of it. If on the other hand you are selling shirts with only the logo and name, again it comes to a licensing rights issue and most companies are very protective of that, in that the quality of the item has to represent the intensions of the company and they want to receive royalties. They also may have a product similar that they do not want your sale to cannibalize their products
 

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