Old School Vang System. 6:1?

Yes, it's an improvement over the original obviously, but doesn't have enough power to allow easy adjustment when the wind is over 15.
 
Nope, sorry. I'm using the turbo vang, and it's a dream [for me] in all sorts of conditions.
 
I used this for a while before I upgraded to XD Vang. It is a good improvement over the standard kicker and good value for money. IMHO the 6:1 purchase is enough for a reasonably strong adult in most conditions. The problem is the original V jamming block which is a pig to adjust. Buy it, use it whilst you save your pennies for the Harken system. then sell your Rooster upgrade on Ebay and you will prob. get most of your money back.:)
 
Geoff,

I think the system is a 6:1 (if I see this in the picture correctly.) The red line is a 3:1, being pulled by the blue line, a 2:1. 2 * 3 = 6, hence, 6:1.
 
I've used this system prior to getting the Harken vang. It provides PLENTY of power but must be rigged with a swivel at the mast so that it can be pulled in from a hiking position. The only drawback, IMO, is that (as mentioned previously in this thread) it is much more difficult to release at the top mark than the harken or holt vang.

As an observation: at last week's mid's, several top guys were using this very vang and several more were using the old-skool top block at the boom in conjunction with a newer harken or holt bottom block. They had this rigged with a cascade just like the production version. I assumed that they were doing this because the old metal block is just plain stronger and probably less prone to allowing the primary cascade line to jump off the sheave.

Also, if you are interested in rigging the vang as pictured in the rooster link, consider using a second line (thin, like 1/8 in. spectra) as the primary cascade. This cleans up the whole system. Its a very reliable and powerful setup.
 
I think the system is a 6:1 (if I see this in the picture correctly.) The red line is a 3:1, being pulled by the blue line, a 2:1. 2 * 3 = 6, hence, 6:1.

There's actually a "stealth" 4th part of the red line (see attached).

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 

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Michael Blackburn, the olympic medalist, world champion, Bass straight crossing laser sailor uses an old school 6:1 vang with a ball bearing top block, I e-mithered him and he said he liked it because it was lighter than a new one and he had used it for ages.
I think it's just what you get used to.
 
I've used both that and the new system. I personally would use this one (definitely with the swivel, as mentioned) in anything under 15, and switch to the 16:1 over that. Unfortunately, I lost those parts. If you have an old-school vang already, just go buy one small pulley and about 8-10 feet of rope, put the new rope where the old rope is, and make the old rope the secondary that you actually adjust.
I like the 6:1 oldschool over the new system because the pulleys are much bigger, allowing much smoother operation. The new vang gets stuck too much, especially in light air and especially if you have cored line. less purchase lets you feel the adjustment more as well.
 
Michael Blackburn.... said he liked it because it was lighter than a new one and he had used it for ages....

That may is one aspect, but more important is the aspect one of the former top Laserites (that one, that now wins all races at the star class ;) ) did say (I heard it by a rumour): The reinforced old style vang better allows to feel the forces of the rig, than the new xd-vang's.

But, always keep in mind: This top sailors do definitely sail in an other orbit than us. Not every thing they use and is good for them, automaticly is good for us.

Ciao
LooserLu
 
If you really want exyta power you can also ad two extra cheek blocks to the bottom original jamber block and replace the cascade block with a double sheave one. Need to use a stout bolt through the three bottom blocks and a good heavy duty barrel swivel to attach to mast and let you adjust it from the side of the boat.
 
I use this system and I love it... it gives 8:1 purchase which for me is plenty, I have no issue at the top mark easing it off and it as someone mentioned up there ^ I get a better feel for the amount of tension I'm putting on. I'm sure that's a matter of getting used to the new 16:1 system but for me, there's no need to shell out the mega bucks when i could just pay for half a new sail!

Also, surely with a 16:1 system you're pulling in twice as much rope for the same amount of travel in the end block of the vang.... where do you put all the extra string when it's honking?
 
Also, surely with a 16:1 system you're pulling in twice as much rope for the same amount of travel in the end block of the vang.... where do you put all the extra string when it's honking?

Most sailers I know drop the new kicker purchase to 8:1 or 12:1 for exactly this reason. (it is also far less likely to jam up)

My issue with the original vang was the V jammer which I found difficult to adjust (even with a swivel). The cam cleat on the new system makes it easier to use regardless of extra purchase.

I still rarely win but at least I can't blame the kicker.:)
 
Also, surely with a 16:1 system you're pulling in twice as much rope for the same amount of travel in the end block of the vang.... where do you put all the extra string when it's honking?

Its a special system (probably why it is quite expensive). The additional "special" rope will automatically wrap itself around your legs or anything else convenient.:D

Ian
 
Also, surely with a 16:1 system you're pulling in twice as much rope for the same amount of travel in the end block of the vang.... where do you put all the extra string when it's honking?

I used to spend a lot of time sorting that line, until I took a tip from VtGent49, AKA Al. Tie the free end of the vang line to your centerboard, either to the handle that you've created or through the hole for a handle, if there is none. I don't have to think about it anymore. The line never gets lost or tangled, and it is usually easy to reach.
 
the old vang isn't as difficult to use as you guys are saying it is. im pretty old school my self i like the old vang. it takes alot more practice with the old vang to get it right then the new one but once you get it, it's just as good. it was said i another post that the vang was harder to use in heavier air well theres a simple way to fix that, work on your upper body strength work your arms as well as abbs lats, caves,quards.
 
the old vang isn't as difficult to use as you guys are saying it is. im pretty old school my self i like the old vang. it takes alot more practice with the old vang to get it right then the new one but once you get it, it's just as good. it was said i another post that the vang was harder to use in heavier air well theres a simple way to fix that, work on your upper body strength work your arms as well as abbs lats, caves,quards.

I'm not sure what caves and quards are. I don't think us Master's age women have those. ;)
 
Thank you, Gentlemen, for the rigging sites. Very useful.
I don't need the "turbo" rig, but I've always hated jam cleats. They eat rope. I made my own bracket with some Harkens. Only five to one, but with a cam cleat. It's gotta be legal! It's less of an advantage than other upgrades. I made no new holes! Haven't tried it yet, angle may need to be changed.
I also made fiberglass bracket to hold outhaul block on deck. How do I get outhaul down to block? Can I put cheek block on boom?
 
just tie a block around the mast above the gooseneck, its what we all do
 
...I made my own bracket with some Harkens. Only five to one, but with a cam cleat. It's gotta be legal!
... I also made fiberglass bracket to hold outhaul block on deck.

Unfortunately, I think both your vang and deck-bracket are illegal... :(

I don't have the class-rules in front of me, but I believe the vang-cleat block hast to be either the new or old "builder supplied" fitting. Ditto with the deck fitting for the block(s) at the base of the mast.

Maybe I'm wrong (it's been a few years since I carefully looked at the specs when I was re-rigging my boat for the new systems...).

Cheers,

Geoff S.
DN US-5156/Laser 145234
 
I haven't made any new holes. The deck bracket is the same as the store-bought one, lower angle, $2.35 worth or fiberglass and polyester resin, same blocks, no hooded fairleads. LESS than upgrade. Well, I can use it at the club, and borrow the exhorbitantly expensive one when I go to the Nationals. I can fabricate lots of stuff, I've done it on three Lightnings. But that class is liberal about things that don't involve cost.
 
i have that kind as i got it with the classic but i can not realy say anything because i am ony 13 years old and set the vang on shore then leave it and do no ajust it again .

187490
 
I started sailing Lasers back way before the upgrades were available, and learned all the little tricks about how to get enough kicker on when it blew hard. With the old 8:1 (all made from one string, with just knots in it!) my friend cranked it all the way down just before the start, and went off the line like a rocket.... First tack, the mainsheet block (at the outboard end of the boom, just in case anyone was wondering!) hit the gunwhale, and promptly capsized the boat! It was so windy that at 11 stone had hadn't sheeted anywhere near block to block except while vanging, so he had no idea just how tight it was! Funny to watch tho!

Somehow his mast and boom survived!
 

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