What am I missing?

Need some incite. I got started sailing my Sunfish on a very shallow lagoon at Grand Isle, LA. I had to keep the dagger board very high to keep from grounding. Now that I am on a lake with no growing issue, I am finding it hard to understand what the long dagger board is for? I have read that staying close to the wind I need it deep but this creates drag! And on a down wind run I don't need it at all! I have very little feel for what I am suppose to be sensing. I am a fat sailor so maybe this is why I notice very little use for the dagger board? I find I do need it to help point but I only think I need it to be only a few inches down to feel I have control of pointing into the wind. For the most part I am keeping it just low enough to miss the boom! What am I missing???

Any Salty incite would be appreciated

For any sailing condition, there will be an optimum daggerboard setting to give the good resistance to slipping sideways with minimum drag.

The Sunfish was designed as a beginner boat and so it has more daggerboard than you need. Beginners just slide it all the way down and go. More board down than needed only makes you slow, but too little down makes you slower.

Since you apparently know what you are doing, you are noticing that you don't need it all the way down.
OK.
Some people put lines on the daggerboard to help indicate how much is below the keel. The only line I would find useful is the one that says none is below the keel. I raise or lower based on how the boat is performing.

The long board all the way down is very useful for a 80 lb kid to lever the boat back upright after dumping it...

"The long board all the way down is very useful for a 80 lb kid to lever the boat back upright after dumping it..."

I'm so glad you reminded me of righting the boat, I have been there and I would also like the long board for that reason.

I am happy to read I seem to have the right feeling for how it works. Thanks for the note

Upwind the board must be down all the way. It does not matter which board you are using. I think your boat came with the really small board, you are side slipping a lot. I had that board and replaced it, what a difference. If the board is up going upwind you are side slipping and probably don't realize it. If you were sailing next to a boat with the board down you would notice the difference in how much you are side slipping. Sunfish go upwind about 45 degrees off the wind, with the board up, you will not be going up at 45 degrees.
On a reach the board is up some, again up enough to reduce drag but not enough to have the boat side slip. If you have to put a lot of rudder into it you are side slipping and need to put the board down. Look at the waterflow coming off the back of the boat. If it is going straight off the boat you are fine, if it isn't straight you are side slipping.
Downwind you heal to windward so you don't have to steer a lot and also have the board up. Again, if you are steering a lot the board is probably to far up and you may not be healing enough to windward. Again, watch the waterflow off the stern of the boat.

Thanks for the comments "Sailflow" I have not noticed side slipping but will watch as you suggest. How long is a short board and a long board? If I have the board down can I still be slipping sideways? Is it possible I have not been in heavy enough wind to notice such issues? I have no clue about how to tell about wind speed other than my weather app and looking at the waves that are being created on the lake.

So if I am understanding your suggestions, any pointing windward the board should be all the way down. And a beam reach and down wind some degree of less board is better, until I am straight down wind where I should have no board down? If my board is very high I will have to take it out as it will reach into my sail??

I am straight down wind where I should have no board down?

You will always have the board in some downwind. Depends on the wind and how you sit, forwards and on the windward side.

If my board is very high I will have to take it out as it will reach into my sail??

If you are jibing from one tack to another, you would have to lower, jib and raise it back up.

If I have the board down can I still be slipping sideways?

Yes, depends on boat speed. Speed creates lift

Dumb daggerboard question | SailingForums.com under Wayne's section

The boards run from 39 inches up to around 44.

The longer boards counter the heeling tendency, along with your "moveable ballast" and the chine, and that allows you to point better. If if my wife tries to sail our wooden Sunfish with its factory 33 inch board, she just get blown sideways. Sounds like you haven't been in strong winds yet, waves will start to whitecap around 12-14 knots.

I do believe I have not been in strong enough wind yet to see such issues. I also think being a fat sailor is keeping my boat more stable than it would with a lighter person. I have not sailed in white caps yet. If the weather app is calling for 15 to 20 mph winds I am thinking it needs to get a little warmer for me to get out there.

I don't think your board is not short, it has a smaller surface area. There was the old board, new board (you have) and barrington board. Alcort tried to make one board for both the minifish and sunfish. They made the new board with less surface area and in a sunfish it will sideslip a lot, they corrected this with the barrington board. These boards are all wood. The new boards are foil shaped, longer and glass.

Dumb daggerboard question | SailingForums.com under Wayne's section
You can see the size difference.

You are also day sailing so you may not notice the difference.

George, I sometimes sail around with my daggerboard halfway or more up. I can't go upwind as tightly but who cares. I'm not trying to get somewhere, I'm already there. And its faster..
The secret is that the line of the hull as well as the rudder also provide lateral resistance. Its not just the daggerboard. You'll definitely go upwind better with the daggerboard fully down, but you can make decent progress with halfway. Haven't tried with no daggerboard yet.

The hobie 16 has no boards at all, not much draft, and can still go upwind pretty good. Its just the hull and the rudders that does it.

Mr. Matous I like how you think! It is a fun time even if I am going sideways!

I do appreciate all the feed back I can get to try to make my time on the water understandable and even more fun.

You can make progress upwind with the daggerboard all the way up... instead of appx 45 deg you'll be making about 8 deg. Mostly sideways but eventually you get where you are going.

"Sailflow" I am trying to understand the phrase "daysailor" ! Is that the opposite of "nightsailor"?

Daysailer = basically a boat you don't expect people to sleep in. Generally no lights for night ops either

Also... generally recreational sailing, not competition.

George Hart said:

If my board is very high I will have to take it out as it will reach into my sail??

Click to expand...

you could always raise the position you have your sail set at as well. then you could tack and/or jibe without worrying as much about what height position your daggerboard is presently set at.

tag said:

you could always raise the position you have your sail set at as well. then you could tack and/or jibe without worrying as much about what height position your daggerboard is presently set at.

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The first post I have read that recommends the sail be high! I thought a real Sailor would have the boat on the deck?

George Hart said:

The first post I have read that recommends the sail be high! I thought a real Sailor would have the boat on the deck?

Click to expand...

George,
That's not what tag wrote; he just said it was an option. For instance, if you go sail with somebody else who is not familiar with tacking and jibing, it might be better to set the rig a bit higher so that nobody will be hit by the boom.
The Sunfish is very versatile in that way.

And yes, racing sailors have the rig pretty low.

To see how much effect the daggerboard has, I tried sailing upwind without it, in about 10 knot breeze.. Couldn't do it though. As can be seen, the tacking angle is 199, so the pointing angle is 100. You need better than 90 degrees pointing angle to make any progress upwind. I'm not particularly heavy though (165 lbs) so maybe more weight would help.

Going about half daggerboard is a considerable improvement. The tacking angle is now 124, which gives a pointing angle of 62.

Whereas the full daggerboard gave me a tacking angle of 102 and pointing angle of 51. I have the old Barrington mahogany daggerboard, so a composite board may do even better. I was not pinching also, I was going at a comfortable upwind angle to keep good speed, but may try next time to see how well i could point if i try.