Stupid wetsuit question

geoffbp58

New Member
Okay, I just resurrected an old Laser, just in time for the boating season to end here in Colorado. I'd like to have a few more days on it; air temps right around 60 and water temp around 55 or so. So I'm sailing with a full wetsuit, and here is my question- is it better to keep the wetsuit dry, or dip in the water and fill it up? I've already had unconscious, ride in the ambulance hypothermia; don't need to do that again! Perhaps a wetsuit isn't the best choice, but that's what I have. I would appreciate any input; thanks guys!
 
My experience would STRONGLY suggest keep it dry. I sail all winter in Ohio until/unless the lake freezes. I use a drysuit now (and HIGHLY recommend it), but from my many years in wetsuits ...
- once I got wet inside a wetsuit, from either capsizing or spray, it was only a matter of time before I had to come in. If the sun was out, or there was less spray, etc, I could stay out a little longer. But once I was wet, I was on my way in sooner or later, and generally sooner.
- keeping hands+feet warm was hard (basically impossible), but VERY important to lasting longer. I used wetsuit gloves+boots. Also a good warm hat- waterproof to keep spray off, if you can find one.
- a spray top / smock or something like that over the wetsuit helped a lot. I lost a lot of heat out of the surface of the wetsuit. Surfing wetsuits are often hydroPHOBIC- that is they shed water and don't stay wet. Snorkeling/scuba wetsuits are usually hydroPHILIC- they attract water and stay wet, so when the wind blows over that wet surface the water evaporates and cools you down fast - (convection AND evaporation).

If you're going to do a lot of cold-water sailing and can POSSIBLY afford it, I suggest looking at a drysuit. I got a Gill 2 yrs ago for under $500 and it has been a game-changer here. I spent lots more than $500 on layers of wetsuit gear (farmer john, shorty, full suit, etc) before I bit the bullet + sprung for a drysuit. If I had known then what I know now, I'd have saved all that money on wetsuit layers + gone straight to the drysuit. In the drysuit, if I tip over I just right the boat + keep sailing. There's no amount of spray that will get me wet inside it. The wetsuit / layers was always trying to slow down the infiltration and postpone the inevitable having to come in. In the drysuit I stay dry + stay warm, so I can stay out as long as I want, only come in when I want to, when I'm tired, etc etc.

Have fun + stay alive.
 
It's not a stupid question Geoffbp58, but the answers given above are not quite on the money. Probably their experience has been with ill-fitting wetsuits. Ask any surfer and they will tell you that the wetsuit needs to hug you firmly to work. They work by admitting a very small amount of water, a thin layer close to your skin, which is warmed up by your body heat. This is why they are often called "steamers". Once this thin layer of water has been drawn into the suit, it won't admit much more as there is no more room for it. If the suit is too baggy and too much water is allowed in, your body has to work too hard to warm up the large amount of water, so you lose body heat quite rapidly. The appropriate thickness of rubber/neoprene for your conditions must be chosen. A wetsuit for your temp conditions is quite appropriate as the water is not that cold and very similar to our winter sailing conditions here in Australia. If the wind is really cold a spray jacket over the top, as cskudder suggested, works well. But eventually you will start to chill down from many immersions and from running low on energy. Time to head to shore then. More info here: How Wetsuits Work

Enjoy your Laser for what's left of the season ;)
 
<<It is a fantastic feeling NOT having the cold drip in when you fall in the water>> +1!
I'm still at least slightly surprised + feel "victory" when I go in, + I do NOT feel the cold seeping in.

And my experience is also that a wetsuit is a reasonable solution for sailing at 55-60*F. I can sail for an hour or so in my wetsuit gear at those temps. Much beyond that, I get cold - faster with lots of spray, a capsize, and/or overcast or limited direct sunlight.

With respect and appreciation for oztayl's comments + knowledge I offer a couple further thoughts simply to explain my own experience with wetsuits. I'm certain that it was not with ill-fitted pieces.

- I've always been aware of the how wetsuits are designed to work, and the need+value of fitting wetsuits closely to minimize infiltration+circulation of new/cold water. I did lots of snorkeling in chilly water before bringing wetsuits into sailing. Even pursuing that approach, my own experience was that I never succeeded in minimizing infiltration + overall heat loss enuf -- combined with radiation, convection, + evaporative cooling -- to the point where I could sail in cold water+air more-or-less indefinitely. I was never able to even remotely approach how I can dress to ski in cold weather all day. The drysuit has brought cold water/weather sailing much ... MUCH ... closer to "dressing to ski all day" ... come off the water when I want, vs be forced to come in earlier than I want, cuz I got cold.

- I also had much difficulty with the restriction of mobility that was always a trade-off with close-fitting neoprene in the quest to keep infiltration to a minimum, combined with layers to minimize infiltration, radiation, etc. Ducking under the boom, swimming + climbing up to right the boat, flexing my arms to trim+ steer -- all were difficult + problematic.

Everybody's gonna have their own experience and I respect oztayl's and others. For many on here, wetsuits have been a good or best solution. But for myself I'm pretty confident in saying that my own lack of success with wetsuits was not a result of ill-fitting, loose-fitting pieces, or a lack of understanding of how they're supposed to fit + work.

All of the above offered with respect to oztayl and others' experiences + opinions, and with the simple intent to explain more about my own experiences.
 
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I have to second the comments made by cskudder. Dry suits really outperform wetsuits as the conditions get colder. Dry suits allow the wearer to use layers of clothing under the suit which will stay dry and add greatly to the warmth.

The obvious disadvantage of dry suits is their cost, which is substantially higher than the cost of most wetsuits. A good dry suit may cost more than many of us have paid for our older Lasers! Further, the most useful dry suits are made with Gore-text or some similar material that allows internal moisture to escape and these materials add significantly to their cost. Dry suits made from the less expensive non-breathable materials trap moisture from the wearer's perspiration and after a time that moisture makes the layers beneath the dry suit get wet and lowers the effectiveness of these insulating layers.
 
Great input, guys- thanks so much. I think I will go ahead and get a drysuit for the colder days. I'd really like a new sail, but I think it would be better to be alive to enjoy it! I'm not kidding about hypothermia; it is an unbelievably not fun experience. I had my wetsuit on last weekend (only the life jacket over it) and sailed for about two hours, mostly light wind but overcast. At the end I was getting chilled, which I didn't expect. I thought I'd cook be cooking, but it didn't work that way! The water is pretty tolerable right now, but once nighttime temps dip into the 20's consistently, the water gets colder pretty fast. That's nature's way of telling you it's time to go skiing...
 
I got this Gill Pro which is breathable, and now listed for $625 -- for $469 in the spring of 2014. Maybe that was a spring/end of season discount?? Who knows / go figure ?? And yes breathable is just awesome.

FWIW, here's the cheapest one I have bookmarked - 190GBP from England = ~$290, plus shipping which I recall was something like $45??? I don't know if this one's breathable or not. I chose to go with the state-side source cuz I wasn't as sure at the time, how good it would be, would it be worth the money, etc. Just thought I'd pass it along.

As much as I enjoy skiing - I'm Ski Patrol - I just LOVE being out on the water in the winter. Don't really have an explanation, and yeah the drysuit cost me easily what my 1973 Laser is worth these days. But there are NOT big hills in Ohio, and even both taken together, they're way less than a couple days of lift tix at anyplace I can't get Patrol courtesy. And the whole entire lake is blessedly wide open unless it ices over.

Have fun!
 
Totally agree with what has been said regarding dry suits. They are the best for keeping you warm. But back to geoffbp58s original question, here's my recommendations when it comes to wetsuits... having spent several lifetimes in them while windsurfing in all kinds of temperatures.

With the current wetsuit you have, don't fill it with water when you start. Plus, even if you never fall in while sailing, your body will likely start to form a very thin layer of moisture anyway between your skin and the wetsuit... if you are exercising enough.

With regard to staying warm, here's what will make the most difference. Wearing a neoprene hood over your head. Also known as a, "Squid Lid". See the image below.
41Cv9CbmWJL._SY300_.jpg

I've tried hats, wool and others, and nothing compares to a neoprene Squid Lid. I've lost count of the times I've been windsurfing and have been slowly losing the battle against the cold, only to stop for a couple of minutes to put on my Squid Lid, return to the water and in 10 minutes I'm warm again. Feet getting cold? Hands getting numb? Put on your Squid Lid.

The next issue was covered very well by previous posts. That is, getting cold from getting sprayed with water and having that water evaporate as you sail. A spray jacket is the best solution here.

On a side note, what's interesting is that I've found that in strong winds, I get far wetter sailing a Laser than I do when windsurfing. It's because you are much lower to the water but mainly that a Laser at speed creates all kinds of spray as it displaces the water it's blasting through.

In contrast, when you are windsufing you're just skipping over the top of the water. I only get wet from the knees down when windsurfing. Unless I crash that is.

Tyson-Sumo-pic.jpg


- Andy
 
We call one of those, "Pearl Diving". Extra points for good form and keeping the toes pointed.

And you gotta love carbon masts. Check out the bend!

- Andy
 
My two cents.

A wetsuit is adequate for water temperatures of 55-60 degrees. If you capsize and go in the water, it should keep you from becoming hypothermic long enough to get the boat upright.

OK, you've got the boat turned upright and are back in the boat. Now what? Maybe it's a mild day with medium winds. I'm a little cold now, but I should warm back up as I move around. I'll keep sailing. Or maybe it's a cold day and the wind is really blowing. There's a good chance I'll go over again. I'm cold and don't think I will warm back up. Better head back in.

It's a judgement call based on conditions, your sailing skill, and your fitness.
 
...I think it would be better to be alive to enjoy it! I'm not kidding about hypothermia; it is an unbelievably not fun experience...

My two cents. A wetsuit is adequate for water temperatures of 55-60 degrees. If you capsize and go in the water, it should keep you from becoming hypothermic long enough to get the boat upright.
... It's a judgement call based on conditions, your sailing skill, and your fitness.
<< +1 >> to both of these thoughts.

For me it has certainly varied lots on conditions, + worked a LOT better when I was younger, bigger, fitter, + move around a lot more. I'm with Geoffpb58 re: cold water + hypothermia. I also had a bad experience with it, mine when I was 14 - young+strong, but dumb. Thankfully mine wasn't as bad - I didn't end up in an ambulance - but it bloody well taught me that hypothermia comes really fast once you're down in cold water + it WILL kill you quickly enuf to really matter -- to respect or fear it, choose your own words but I for myself am perfectly comfortable with the word fear. I'm 60 and on the slight side, and in cold weather I'm pretty much ALL alone on the water around here, maybe an occasional windsurfer, kiteboarder, or fisherman but substantially all alone from a rescue/help perspective. And I enjoy it most when it blows 15kts+up = lotsa spray + gotta be ready for capsizing. I won't go out unless I am confident that I'm dressed to survive the swim a 1/2 mile to shore in these little lakes, in the unlikely event that the mast hole tears out or something really cripples or even sinks my 43-yr-old boat, or a big hit on the head from the boom, etc+etc, leaves me in the water for a long time (hr or 2???). I love my wife + she loves me but she'll surely kill me the day I don't come back home from something goofy like winter sailing.:D
 
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