Class Politics All about to kick off....

Just one more month to go for discovery to end. Am spending time rereading the IYRU Agreement, shaking my head and wondering about the future of the ILCA.

Today being November 11 is also the 9th anniversary of the signing of the builder's contract with LaserPerformance Europe. (Quarter Moon, Incorporated).
 
Hi Gantt, I've been following this discussion for a long time on that other forum... been very tempted at times to join, but I wouldn't have much to add to what you and Gouv are saying!

What personally bugs me probably the most is what ILCA did with the rule-change vote. I think it was the first time ever that I decided not to vote on something, as it was obvious from the start that they weren't telling the whole truth. The biggest "red flag" was that we were hurried to vote although there was several months of time to do it.

Somehow I am afraid that all that comes out of the whole affair by next spring is that LP has to pay something to Kirby, and everyone acts as if nothing had ever happened.
 
Seen in Yachts and Yachting forum (UK). It is on their website so doesn't look fake.

Laser.png
 
A Stipulation of Dismissal was filed 19 November. Wondering if a settlement has been reached?
I doubt it. The dismissal is: 1. LPE's claims against PSA and 2. some (not all) of LPE's claims against Global Sailing. See attachment.
 

Attachments

  • ctd-04104398494.pdf
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I doubt it. The dismissal is: 1. LPE's claims against PSA and 2. some (not all) of LPE's claims against Global Sailing. See attachment.

Thanks for posting that 'Whatever'.
STIPULATION OF FED. R. CIV. P. 41 DISMISSAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 41(c), counterclaim-plaintiffs Laserperformance (Europe) Limited and Quarter Moon, Inc. hereby dismiss this action as to the counterclaim-defendant Performance Sailcraft Pty. Ltd. without prejudice and with each party to bear its own costs and attorneys’ fees with respect to the dismissed claims. Counterclaimplaintiffs further dismiss all claims against counterclaim-defendant Global Sailing Limited except Counterclaims six, seven and nine without prejudice and with each party to bear its own costs and attorneys’ fees with respect to the dismissed claims.

6. Breach Of The 1983 Builder Agreement
7. Breach Of The 1989 Builder Agreement
9. Unjust Enrichment (Against Kirby, BKI And Global Sailing)
 
I noticed someone on the other blog commented about the high entry fees....$450 at Masters worlds....$350 Miami OCR..While it is always great to see some of the new athlete's getting into the sport I can't think of worse way to promote the sport than to have these high entry fees. At Cedar Point they got entry fees down to the bare minimum and I didn't hear one sailor complain about it and we still have enough $ for the after race pizza party...It's not about the money, it's about being well organized.
 
That is really the cost of running these big regattas unfortunately. Grouping the masters and open worlds together, allows for costs to be shared. But a huge proportion of the costs are associated with bring in the international race officials and accomodating them (they don't get paid). As long as ISAF expects World Chamionships to be run with these officials, regattas will be expensive. Obviously there are other expenses that can also be looked at.
 
Next item on the schedule is a motions hearing on 21 May.

I don't think the majority of Laser sailing is affected. What seems to be a bigger threat is the emergence of the RS Aero - they seem to be active in most markets - but have a long way before they get anything close to the market penetration of the Laser class. The thing they struggle from most is the cost of entry - you can get an older Laser for cheap and go race against others - with the RS Aero you can only get new or near new - and there are few fleets. I'm not saying they won't make it - they have a lot of work to go before they get there.
 
So many have tried to repeat the Laser formula and all have been essentially unsuccessful, except in very small pockets.

As Gantt says you need market penetration, without good fleet sizes, inexpensive second hand boats and a world wide distribution network no class is going to get that market penetration, particularly when there are 50 other builders/designers trying to do the same thing.
 
No new competing classes threaten the Laser in any way as long as the sport as a whole is not growing. Even in places where there is growth (mostly in Asia), the choice seems to be to go with classes like the Laser (designed 45 years ago), 420 (designed 55 years ago) and Optimist (designed 68 years ago!).

When the Laser was new, dinghy sailing wasn't merely growing, it was exploding by today's standards. Think of what honestly counts as a 21st-century success: the 29er is sailed on all continents and has had 200-boat World Championships. Still, after 15 years its total numbers are about the same as the number of Lasers built each year during that same time. And in the peak years of the 1970s, Lasers were built at more than five times the current rate.

So, to not go farther off topic, one way to look at the lawsuit is that it's about global domination of a shrinking market. Maybe it's no wonder that ILCA chose to side with the largest builder... though I've thought all the time that the class would survive even a complete, multi-year production stop. People wouldn't ask "what brand new singlehanded boat should I buy", but "where do I get a little-used Laser"?
 
Part of the reason why Lasers were successful was because they hit the market at about the time fibreglass was introduced to boat building, five years earlier you built your own boat, had a boat builder build it or purchased a second hand boat, all of which were made in timber. As a result, at least in this region, there were lots of classes, with reasonable fleet sizes, but many classes could draw their origins back to the needs of a specific club for a particular age group. Lasers offered mass production off the shelf boats something completely new at the time, but it also effectively killed off many of these other classes.

I always find these promotional videos of new boats slightly amusing, all boats look fun and exciting on a reach, but they virtually never show the boat going upwind or square downwind where the boats don't look as exciting, but it's you really see how a boat performs and it's where racing predominately occurs.
 
It's been commented elsewhere that I looks very much like that boat is using a Laser vang and boom.
 
No new competing classes threaten the Laser in any way as long as the sport as a whole is not growing. Even in places where there is growth (mostly in Asia), the choice seems to be to go with classes like the Laser (designed 45 years ago), 420 (designed 55 years ago) and Optimist (designed 68 years ago!).

When the Laser was new, dinghy sailing wasn't merely growing, it was exploding by today's standards. Think of what honestly counts as a 21st-century success: the 29er is sailed on all continents and has had 200-boat World Championships. Still, after 15 years its total numbers are about the same as the number of Lasers built each year during that same time. And in the peak years of the 1970s, Lasers were built at more than five times the current rate.

So, to not go farther off topic, one way to look at the lawsuit is that it's about global domination of a shrinking market. Maybe it's no wonder that ILCA chose to side with the largest builder... though I've thought all the time that the class would survive even a complete, multi-year production stop. People wouldn't ask "what brand new singlehanded boat should I buy", but "where do I get a little-used Laser"?

All good points are I agree with one exception. Global membership of the ILCA is either static or experiencing mild growth. I think the market potential is growing faster than population growth - because of increased affluence - again an overall global phenomena. The demise of the Laser is overstated...

The results from the motions hearing must get posted shortly...
 
Takao from Performance Sailcraft Japan stops in to chat with the LP team!
https://twitter.com/LaserPerform/status/608004492194414593
Very interesting indeed. All along, the status of the third, and smallest, builder has been unclear. There was a mention on the Torch website a long time ago that Kirby had terminated his contract with PSJ, but I understand they're still building Lasers... completely legally under the current rules.

I have met Takao Otani only briefly, but my late father knew him better (even staying at his home during a trip to Japan) and had nothing but good things to say about him. I would have thought he would have sided with Kirby on the legal issues, but looks like he's at least on speaking terms with LP. Maybe Kirby actually screwed up this one?

Anyway, I have never understood why PSJ's piece of the Laser world has been so small. A few years ago, someone imported a bunch of barely-used Japanese boats over here, and one of their owners that I later spoke with was completely convinced of their superior quality.
 
From my understanding, PSJ slice is so small because the operation started by making the boats illegally. The other builders, Kirby and the ILCA decided to licence the operation rather than shutting it down. Obviously this all happened really early on in the laser history.
 
That's interesting, Alan, I've never heard that before. That might even explain why Kirby excluded PSJ from the Torch plan - maybe he never thought of them as a "real" builder, after all.
 
That's interesting, Alan, I've never heard that before. That might even explain why Kirby excluded PSJ from the Torch plan - maybe he never thought of them as a "real" builder, after all.
His exclusion is more likely because of his involvement with the ILCA, he's part of the technical committee, etc

In defence of Takao. He's one of the strongest supporters of the class out there. If the origins of the PSJ is as I understand, it would have been done to introduce the class to Japan because he thought the concept and the boat was so great and not like many today that want to make a quick buck.
 
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His exclusion is more likely because of his involvement with the ILCA, he's part of the technical committee, etc
Hmm... I can't see how that makes a difference, as both other builders are represented in the World Council, while Takao only has a "consultant" role. I don't know if being on the Technical and Measurement Committee is a big deal.

http://laserinternational.org/info/worldcouncil

In any case, my understanding is also that he is just about the last guy on Earth who would exploit anyone or anything for personal gain.
 
He has multiple roles, not just as a builder but also as a representative of the Asia Pacific Region and the Japanese Laser Association. The other 2 builders I assume are only ever representing themselves as builders (Chris is a Laser sailor and a member of the NSW LA but isn't involved with the district or regional committee).
 
Maybe we need to create a Kickstarter campaign to help Takao buy the rights to the Laser design from Bruce.
 
I agree that if the Laser class was to have an owner-of-all-rights, TO would be a good choice.

But no one can buy any rights from Kirby because he doesn't have any. What he does have is a few contracts with a few other companies and organizations. Most of those others think of those contracts quite differently than he does, and therefore they've all been in court for two years. (Short story of this thread.)
 
Heard a rumor that us lasers will start coming from China. Thats not true is it?
Probably not, at least not yet. LP is moving its Sunfish production from Rhode Island to China, but it doesn't affect Lasers - they haven't been built at the RI plant for several years anyway. It all depends what LP is planning to to do with the Banbury plant.
 

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