Retrofit question

Sailkb

Member
Anyone please weigh in, but Signal Charlie may have an interest in this post since I am referring to instructions on his blog. I am involved in a rudder upgrade. I am ready to install; have the new hardware. Question about the rudder cheeks. Instructions are to put nylon washers between the rudder cheeks and the rudder where the bolt attaches the two. But it doesn't appear it is made for that. The rudder cheeks fit snugly over my rudder blade. Instructions also call for the same where the tiller brackets attach to the rudder. I can see that since it needs to swivel. However, if I have washers on the tiller piece but not on the cheeks, the two will not match up nicely; tiller straps would slightly hang wider than the cheek assembly. This would not be a big deal, but doesn't seem right. So, question is, do you put washers between the cheeks and the rudder? Or am I reading that wrong.
 
A small set goes between the tiller straps and the rudder blade. The larger pair go between the rudder cheek and the rudder blade. Yes the rudder cheeks pinch in when new. You can put the plastic washer on the rudder blade in position and secure with small piece of masking tape. Then slide rudder cheek over and install bolt. Otherwise you can slide cheek onto rudder blade then squeeze in plastic washers. I use later method and then use a small blade screwdriver to position washers correctly then add bolt.
 
Yep, they go in there, I wedge the cheek up a bit with my fingers and use a small screwdriver to push the washer (bushing) into general position, then the round screwdriver shaft to align the washer, then start the bolt on one side. Flip over and do the other side.

The tape is a good tip I hadn't heard before, thanks sailcraftri!

When you put the spring on, place one end over the rudder pin and grab the other end with a pair of vice grips to work it into position. Don't tighten them to where they would crush the spring.

Post some pics!

KB
 

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Thanks for the clarification. The washers did not come with the parts I ordered. I think I'll be find what I need and my local hardware store. Just finished cutting and shaping my new rudder today. I'll report in once I have a finished product, but need several days to stain and varnish the rudder. I'm all about getting any additional tips anyone thinks of.
 
Hola sailkb

You can also cut washers from a plastic water/milk/? jug.

The washers reduce play in the fittings and wear on the wood. Another trick is to look at the short shank bolts, will the sharp threads be contacting the wood? If so you might buy longer bolts so there is enough smooth shank rubbing on the wood, and install the bolt with stainless washers under the head and stopnut. Larry Cochran (Windward Leg 1991) even suggests putting small nylon washers between the SS washers and the aluminum tiller/rudder parts to reduce dissimilar metal corrosion. Measure everything out, I have had to make return trips to the hardware store because bolt was too short when washers were added. Install and cut off excess bolt with a hacksaw.

There are a lot of tips to insert screws/dowels/rods at various angles into the rudder head to prevent grainwise splits, or bushings into the pivot holes. I'd sail with the rudder a bit and decide in the next off season if you want to improve any of these areas.

Fair winds
kent
 
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If you need plastic washers I have new ones. $2 for all 4 and includes shipping. Contact me at cjo1023 at yahoo-dot-com with your address and you can mail a check to me. I have hundreds of these.
 
Thanks again for the tips. This is a small detail I almost overlooked that would have been costly. Sailcrafti, I just sent you an e-mail. Thanks for your offer. I think I will also try to make some just for spare since I have material I think might work. But it would be nice to have the official washers.
 
My retrofit protect is finally complete! I've had several delays due to work schedule but the process was actually quite simple. Making my own rudder also added to the time, but otherwise it could be done on a Saturday morning. The installment of the inspection port was simple. I had a second, old daggerboard that I used to make
 
Sorry.... my last post went out prematurely. Let's try again.

My retrofit protect is finally complete! I've had several delays due to work schedule but the process was actually quite simple. Making my own rudder also added to the time, but otherwise it could be done on a Saturday morning. The installment of the inspection port was simple. I had a second, old daggerboard that I used to make my rudder. Cut that out and sanded to shape, finished with stain and 5 coats of Spar varnish. I also made my own tiller and will attach my current hiking stick. I found the hardware on sale (winter prices) so I feel like my investment was minimal, about $120. Sure beats the $400 + for kits. Thanks for the tips in this thread on the little details. I am anxious to try out the new convenience of the set up and to see if I feel more control.
Dagger bd-rudder.jpg Sanding.jpgFinish.jpg attached2.jpg attached1.jpg
 
I didn't want my shiny new rudder scraped up so I used flexible plastic (similar to a 'for sale' sign, but slightly thicker) to go between the tiller straps and the rudder cheeks. Each side is a single piece - the upper portion can be seen in the attached picture. It's held up for 2+ seasons of sailing. Doubtlessly it violates all sorts of class rules...
Rudde.png
 
I thought about using milk jugs but thought again that they would wear too quickly, so I found a thin plastic cutting board to cut out discs, worked like a charm and I am hoping they will last
 
I'm still in denial that we need to do a conversion, even though the old ones are a pain in the butt when you're wrestling a 'fish that wants to take off, trying to get the pin in, and then the rudder keeps popping out of the bracket just as you get the pin in. :confused:
 
I'm still in denial that we need to do a conversion, even though the old ones are a pain in the butt when you're wrestling a 'fish that wants to take off, trying to get the pin in, and then the rudder keeps popping out of the bracket just as you get the pin in. :confused:

Have you tried loosening wing nut a bit, pinning the rudder then tightening the wing nut? Adds a few steps but sometimes easier to get the pin in that way...

Sail on!
KB
 
Have you tried loosening wing nut a bit, pinning the rudder then tightening the wing nut? Adds a few steps but sometimes easier to get the pin in that way...

Hmm ... it could be the fact it's been too cold to sail since, oh, September, but I'm not really sure what you mean? The problem is that the bottom of the rudder bracket slips out, even if you think you've got it in and you push off (and can't figure out why your boat won't steer and you're getting pushed back to the beach).

We launch from the beach on a northeast shore and the wind predominantly comes up from the south, so we usually can't put the rudder on until the boat is well in the water (pointed into the wind), so as we're trying to put the rudder on and pin it, we're wrestling with a bobbing boat and a bobbing rudder. Then if we have a north wind, we still have to back the boat into the water a bit until it's deep enough for the rudder. That's easier, but we'll still have pop up issues sometimes as we come about. I wonder if maybe if the grooves are getting worn too smooth and that's part of the issue? These are 1960 boats and weren't coddled.

Honestly, we've thought about trying to come up with something to secure the bottom of the bracket, but I suppose that could cause some damage if we caught a nasty gust on a run to the beach and the rudder couldn't pop out. Maybe we should just learn how to launch from the dock, so we can just put the rudder on while the boat's trailered, then roll it down the ramp, and we're golden (minus the ornery pop outs that sometimes happen. That's one of our goals this year: launch from a dock. Aim high, kids! :rolleyes:
 
Hmm ... it could be the fact it's been too cold to sail since, oh, September, but I'm not really sure what you mean? The problem is that the bottom of the rudder bracket slips out, even if you think you've got it in and you push off (and can't figure out why your boat won't steer and you're getting pushed back to the beach).
:rolleyes:

If you read Al and Cort's Rudder Releasing Mechanism for Small Boats patent application, which we all do when bored, it appears they meant for the rudder to be pinned at the top then "lowered into the operating position after launching it from a beach, or in shallow water." And adjusted "to release more or less readily, by varying compression of the leaf spring, by means of a thumb nut." Or tightened completely down for positive locking.

So you start out on land :). What we have done a few times is
1. do NOT put the vertical plate in the bottom groove (keel latch plate) but instead
3. pin the top of the vertical plate first to the deck plate.
3. Pull the tiller forward and the rudder will come up and it will flop to one side or the other on the stern.
4. Leave the wing nut on the carriage bolt loose enough so the rudder can pop in eventually, but not loose enough to go plunk.
5. Put the boat in the water.
6. NOW push the vertical plate down into the latch plate
7. Tighten the wing nut more if desired. You probably have to lift tiller a bit to do this, and watch the fingers
8. Go sailing.

One coordinated person can do it but having a launch crew is optimum. And as you mentioned, maybe the latch plate could be refiled to a flat surface, the spring plate needs to be resprung or the bevel on the bottom of the vertical plate refiled? If those plate surfaces are rounded out you won't get as much holding power.

One other thing, on later years they put a piece of thick surgical tubing over the carriage bolt, that helped keep it from moving sideways and held it more vertical in the transom groove.

Good Luck!
Kent

Pop quiz: The red sailboat is
a) Sufish
b) Sailfish
c) Super Sailfish
4) Super Sailfish MKII
 

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Hmm, that could work. I'll play with it in the garage. :) Good tip about the tubing, too!

Still should probably learn to rig'n'launch from the dock ... :cool:
 
Hmm, that could work. I'll play with it in the garage. :) Good tip about the tubing, too!

Still should probably learn to rig'n'launch from the dock ... :cool:
I have two goals when I go sailing. One, have a blast on the boat. Two, drive home with dry feet. Not that I mind wet feet in the summer, but for some reason I get the competitive urg to back the boat just enough into the water that I can push off the trailer without touching the water, tether the boat to the dock with a looong rope, drop into the boat and go sailing. Then the same process in reverse going home. I don't know what the deal is. I love the water. But I guess it's a challenge I can't refuse! So, yes. Dock launching is the way to go :)
 
If you read Al and Cort's Rudder Releasing Mechanism for Small Boats patent application, which we all do when bored, it appears they meant for the rudder to be pinned at the top then "lowered into the operating position after launching it from a beach, or in shallow water." And adjusted "to release more or less readily, by varying compression of the leaf spring, by means of a thumb nut." Or tightened completely down for positive locking.

So you start out on land :). What we have done a few times is
1. do NOT put the vertical plate in the bottom groove (keel latch plate) but instead
3. pin the top of the vertical plate first to the deck plate.
3. Pull the tiller forward and the rudder will come up and it will flop to one side or the other on the stern.
4. Leave the wing nut on the carriage bolt loose enough so the rudder can pop in eventually, but not loose enough to go plunk.
5. Put the boat in the water.
6. NOW push the vertical plate down into the latch plate
7. Tighten the wing nut more if desired. You probably have to lift tiller a bit to do this, and watch the fingers
8. Go sailing.

One coordinated person can do it but having a launch crew is optimum. And as you mentioned, maybe the latch plate could be refiled to a flat surface, the spring plate needs to be resprung or the bevel on the bottom of the vertical plate refiled? If those plate surfaces are rounded out you won't get as much holding power.

One other thing, on later years they put a piece of thick surgical tubing over the carriage bolt, that helped keep it from moving sideways and held it more vertical in the transom groove.

Good Luck!
Kent

Pop quiz: The red sailboat is
a) Sufish
b) Sailfish
c) Super Sailfish
4) Super Sailfish MKII


Hi, I noticed that the picture of the old style rudder appears to have a piece of bronze strapping attached to the top of the rudder and then down to the small "shelf" where it is screwed through a piece of something: maybe phenolic? Is this something original or something you made? I just refinished the rudder and fabricated a new tiller and was considering fabricating something like this to keep the rudder off the deck. Could you possibly provide a description of how it is made? Many thanks.
 
Hi, I noticed that the picture of the old style rudder appears to have a piece of bronze strapping attached to the top of the rudder and then down to the small "shelf" where it is screwed through a piece of something: maybe phenolic? Is this something original or something you made? I just refinished the rudder and fabricated a new tiller and was considering fabricating something like this to keep the rudder off the deck. Could you possibly provide a description of how it is made? Many thanks.

The boat is a 1965 model. Cap'n Jack was first in charge of that rudder, I'll ask if it came that way or he added it. That black piece is thick rubber and yes, it did help keep the tiller off the deck.
 

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