New to me pre-71 SF w issues including warped foredeck. Feedback please

Petrel

Member
A few days ago, I got a pre-71 Sunfish that had been stored, unwanted on it's side next to a fence for a couple of years. Old style rudder intact (it appears, even with top bronze piece and pin). The mast was missing (I have a spare), and the hull has a crack along the keel, forward of the db slot.
There is a YouTube video of someone repairing such a crack, so I hope I can do that.

The hull looks pretty good in many ways (White w decent gel coat, blue stripes and blue splash guard and cockpit). The hull is SOGGED. There are no inspection ports, so I guess I will have to install some and dry the hull out.

However, as nice as the finish on the hull looks (the cockpit looks pristine), the foredeck with its pretty stripes and gelcoat is somewhat warped. I paid _very little_ for the SF and don't mind experimenting with the hull repair (youtube university) and installing inspection ports, but have a question. Does the warping evident in the foredeck foretell something seriously beyond fixing? I was only going to use the boat for a day sailer, not racing.

Is the warping (not too pronounced, I mean, it still looks nice) from it being sogged? From being stored on its side? And, since it is not the HULL, but the foredeck, might it still sail okay enough for a day sailer, non-racing boat? I will try to post a photo of the overall, then one (still on phone) of the foredeck and hull/keel crack when I can get them from my phone.

How does a SF sustain that sort of a keel crack ? The crack in my "new" SF keel isn't quite as long as this one in YT vid.

What is this 'release fabric' stuff called "Peel Ply" or (sounds like) Plio-Ply? Where do I find it and if not, is there a substitute?

Thanks!
 

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IMG_6322-2012-07-22 Pre71 SF w warped foredeck sz.jpg
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IMG_6330-2012-07-22 Pre-71 SF hull keel hole crack 8 inches Long sztx.jpg
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I don't see a warp in the picture. Do you have a photo that would show it better?

Thanks, BB.
I will post more photos now that I have them off my phone. I'm not sure that the warping shows up all that well, and perhaps it isn't very significant (which is good). I can feel and see that the foredeck is misshapen, but I hope it doesn't indicate that there is real trouble beneath. It shows the most on the bow head on view.

IMG_6322-2012-07-22 Pre71 SF w warped foredeck sz.jpg
 
The deck doesn't look like anything worth worrying about. Once the blocks are dried out and the hole fixed you should be good to go. These boats often never look quite perfect even when new, so for a boat that is 40+ years old you should be pretty happy with it - especially when when the hole is fixed and it is dried out. BB
 
Thanks so much BB and Doug.

BB, glad that the warping isn't anything to worry about. Yep, the price was right and it looks in decent shape.
And yes, Doug, that was your excellent video that I was referring to. I only hope to be able to somewhat approximate your excellent job. You make it look so easy.

Doug, you didn't say, but am I correct in assuming you dried your boat out before patching it ;)
I think I've got some inspection ports around, so do I use 4" or larger? Five inch? 5200 or 4200?
Also, rivets (aluminum)? or do you folks think the stainless steel "bolts" (w lock nuts) are necessary? Or screws?
I have a rivet gun and some aluminum rivets, but can go and pick up some ss bolts and lock nuts if you think that is better. What size?

The bailer cap is frozen on (I hear that is typical), but I might just leave it for now unless you think I should take a grinder to it.

You folks are so helpful. Thanks so much.
 
petrel, no i did not dry it - i do have that on my list-o-things-to-do but i never quite get around to it - i really have no off-season around here and its superhumid 9 months out of the year. that one could use the shedding of a few lbs. i may consider a lightbulb and a low voltage computer fan...may or may not work.

(oh yes, and thanks for compliment on the video)

i have a 6'' port aft of the splash guard and a 5'' on the deck at the stern. only reason i have the one in the back is because i had to re-secure a bridle eyestrap. i never use 5200 for anything on my boats - its just way to strong imho if you ever need to undo anything. i use whatever the brand of sealing sealant is next to the 3m at a much more affortable price - hasn't let me down yet.

i also prefer ss and lock washers to locknuts - i find lock nuts to be a bit of a pain if you get a set of screws that are even slightly too long - once again never had a problem with one of 'em coming unscrewed. (haven't used rivets)

as for as the bailer...i replaced both of my metal ones with newer plastic ones (both of my hulls are '72's.) i took a drill to the nut and peeled it off with a lockwrench and popped it out.
 
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The bottle port available at Intensity is great - 5 inch , viking port. I think #8 "machine screws" countersunk with nyloc nuts or cut washer and a flat washer inside - people use brass, ss, even nylon hardware works. I don't trust rivets to seal things together, sometimes they seem to jam, or partially pull through warping things, and create a gap. (But it's not my occupation, perhaps a personal problem.)
 
Thanks Doug and Pat75.

Pat75: great idea. No money for it now, but I sure like the item and will keep it on my got to get someday list.

Doug, how can you STAND that horrid humidity?! I go bonkers just in interior New England. Lately we have had very humid weather and warm temps so it is difficult for me to get boat and yard work taken care of. Where are you located? Gulf?

I haven't order the Peel Ply because I am low on funds right now. But, I was _wondering_ if the large section of clear polyethylene like shipping bag I save could work as a substitute. I've played with (West Systems) epoxy a bit and know it doesn't want to stick to anything with a gel or "oily" feel like margerine containers. The poly wrap packaging I'm referring to is that milky-clear, soft shipping bag material. Would that work? It is a large piece.

So, I gather from your video that you put the Peel Ply down on the exterior of the hull, then over that, made an epoxy fiberglass backer?

I may need to ask you a few questions as this goes on. Incredible that you could do this without drying out the hull. Funny.

QUESTION: I have a bunch of boat repair stuff and SF stuff. I have a couple of 5" deck plates/inspection ports. Will these do? I have some 6" deck plates and one 4" one. I don't know that I will keep this SF, but I might. It has the old rudder style and it appears to have all the rudder hardware, except perhaps any plastic tube over the deck to hull bolt. I don't see myself spending $400 to upgrade the rudder system, so (given that) will a 5" deck plate be okay at the stern? Then the matching 5" deck plate 4" aft of the splash guard? I have the RWO 5" plates and so will only use some silicone and some #8 self tapping screws to afix them. Even though this was a cheap boat to pick up, I am a bit intimidated on sawing a 5" hole into the hull ;-) I guess that is something I will just have to get used to.

OH, I also have a new "OLD STYLE" bailer and a new "New STYLE" bailer. The latter I am planning to use on my '73 SF. So I guess I can put the OLD STYLE bailer onto the boat with the HULLUVA Hole. Did I not read something a while back (many moons) about people wanting to keep the old, aluminum hull sections of the bailers? Or not liking the "space" between the hull and the replaced plastic bailers?

Thanks again, Doug and Pat75.
 
I think the best size deck plate would be the smallest one that you can fit your entire arm into. Arm or Sunfish part... (You can always swap out for a larger deck plate... but you can't swap a large deck plate for a smaller one.) ...probably 5"

Before cutting into the hull, there is a ton of info in these threads. These guys have discussed and thought of lots of good points. I suggest searching and reading while you spend a few days or weeks or months thinking about cutting into the hull.

GL
 
Thanks so much, Pat75. I will save the 6" ones for my Daysailer and put the 5" Laser deckplates in the new bargain SF. I'll place them according to the Windline net directions unless someone has a better idea.

I love this forum and after reading here or on the other SF forum about the "old style" rudder set up, I went out to check to see if the new cheapy SF had the plastic tube -- I had not noticed it. Whew, it does. If anyone would like, I can take photos of the hardware. I've never put one together, but it appears that I have the pieces.

This SF has been in the sunlight, and even without the deck plates, it is already much lighter. I hope I can make the holes tomorrow and install the deck plates shortly after. I do appreciate your reassurance since I am probably not the only one to quiver at the thought of taking a saber saw to that pretty gel coat deck. I think nothing of tearing out a birch or maple and transplanting it, or starting a knitting project), but when it comes to something so irrevokable (spell check for me) as a hole in a glass deck, I get queasy.

I have my "main squeeze" SF which I patched the cockpit on, so this will be an extra that I plan to find a way to double up with on a trailer so that both my husband and I can sail. I wish our small lake-pond had more sailboats on it. Mostly it is stink pots, jetskis and a few kayaks.

I used to work at a university where to graduate, students had to learn to swim. I think that everyone should learn to swim, row and sail! ;-) No excuses!
 
Let me try to quote what someone here wrote on the subject of cutting the hull:
(I can't find the post so I'll try to do it from memory or at least relay the concept.)

~"When you're cutting a piece of wood, they say 'measure twice, cut once', but when it comes to cutting a hole in a boat, it's more like, 'Measure twice, go inside a think about it for a while, measure again, think of the best procedure, sleep on it, think about it for a few days... and keep doing this until your anxiety goes away and you are comfortable and confident with the idea."~
 
petrel, i'm a mile or two from biscayne bay. (and i love humidity - all 13 months of it.)

you need to go back and look at the video. the polyethelyne (non-stick) and the peel ply (aka release fabric) are used for different purposes.

you make a multi-layer repair matt upsidedown on peel ply over polyethelene saturating it with epoxy as you go. the repair mat sticks to the peel ply, but not the polyethelyne or the work surface under it. you take the repair matt with the peel ply on the bottom off of the polyethelyne while its wet and put it in place over the backing mould on your hull. the peel ply is then on top of the repair. you squeegee out the excess epoxy by squeegeeing over the peel ply. the peel ply is a thinly woven fabric that allows just enough penetration of epoxy that its adhered but not permanent. when you squeegee over it, excess epoxy comes out of the edges without disrupting the fiberglass fabric underneath.

the peel ply only works for this because its stuck to the repair mat - if you tried this with polyethelyne it would be a big mess - you'd screw up your whole repair mat because the polyethelyne would be slipping around as you squeegeed out the epoxy.

the next day when its all dry, you peel off the peel ply to reveal a smooth fiberglass repair. i have to say peeling back the peel ply was the coolest part of the whole process. it was the first time i knew the whole thing was going to work out. after that you are all ready for faring. (dont skip the faring)
 
Oh, boy! Thanks Pat75 and Doug. Finally the weather is cooler, so I hope I can work on boats (then the house painting and the roof re-shingling -- the list only stop when the undertaker is paid).

Doug, I will go back and review the video, because even though I have watched it four or five times, I clearly missed something. Meanwhile, I feel for you and anyone else in the hurricane and rain path. I don't know how anyone can tolerate the constant high humidity unless there is always a stiff breeze.
 

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