Frozen bailer

water rat

Member
The 1968 sunfish I purchased has a coroded bailer that resists any effort to move it. I have tried soaking it for two nights with Blaster but that didn't help... . Any suggestions would be greatly appreceated
 
PB Blaster is designed to "creep". Soak it again, and set up internal mini-shocks by tapping it lightly with a tack hammer. I'd suggest heating it, but the plastic internal parts might be hard to find.
 
Keep it soaked for a few more days and tap it with a hammer a few times a day as Light and variable suggests before thinking about cutting it off. If it was a salt water boat there can be an enormous amount of corrosion.

On car parts that are really stuck I like to spray it on 4 days before I anticipate getting started on a repair. The interesting thing is that the stuff continues to work long after you would expect it to. I tried to remove exhaust tips from a tailpipe that I cut out of a car. The blaster didn't do anything for a week, so I sprayed the set screws and set it aside for a month....nothing. Sprayed again....let it sit for two months.....nothing. Sprayed it again and forgot about it for three months. The set screws came out easily then.
 
Keep it soaked for a few more days and tap it with a hammer a few times a day as Light and variable suggests before thinking about cutting it off. If it was a salt water boat there can be an enormous amount of corrosion.

On car parts that are really stuck I like to spray it on 4 days before I anticipate getting started on a repair. The interesting thing is that the stuff continues to work long after you would expect it to. I tried to remove exhaust tips from a tailpipe that I cut out of a car. The blaster didn't do anything for a week, so I sprayed the set screws and set it aside for a month....nothing. Sprayed again....let it sit for two months.....nothing. Sprayed it again and forgot about it for three months. The set screws came out easily then.
Salt Water boat and the plug is brass..Other then that a fellow kayak instructor who owned a fiberglass company says the sucker is in great shape... We cut inspection ports... and the 48 year old foam blocks are dry. First bailer I ever had was a cut off bleach bottle... and at age 83 it may also be the last..Hey grab life while you can . She sets sail tomorrow along the gulf coast
 
The cast aluminum nut that holds the bailer in place is a 36 mm hex nut, After years of trying to get these metal bailer assemblies apart, I finally bought a 1/2 drive 24" long
breaker bar with swivel head from Harbor Freight (about $7) and a 36 mm deep socket from NAPA (about $12) Then I soak the bailer threads with penetrating oil apply the breaker bar/socket rig and so far I am three for three for removing the nut without damage to the nut or bailer threads. If you are just doing one, borrow the tools from a friend who has them. If you don't have such a friend, cultivate one.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY
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The cast aluminum nut that holds the bailer in place is a 36 mm hex nut, After years of trying to get these metal bailer assemblies apart, I finally bought a 1/2 drive 24" long
breaker bar with swivel head from Harbor Freight (about $7) and a 36 mm deep socket from NAPA (about $12) Then I soak the bailer threads with penetrating oil apply the breaker bar/socket rig and so far I am three for three for removing the nut without damage to the nut or bailer threads. If you are just doing one, borrow the tools from a friend who has them. If you don't have such a friend, cultivate one.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY View attachment 21242
Unable to move the top piece on the old bailer..it is corroded..is this where you apply the wrench or is this piece supposed to go up and down?
 
Unable to move the top piece on the old bailer..it is corroded..is this where you apply the wrench or is this piece supposed to go up and down?
I have no experience with the DePersia bailer, :( but I think the reason Alan S. Glos suggested the ½" breaker bar—with the 36mm socket—is to allow enough "internal clearance" to get the socket over the plug. A smaller socket won't fit. :confused:

With a 3/8" breaker bar, try a 36mm oil filter socket :cool: as it's made of thinner material, and may have the clearance that's needed. The lip of whichever oil filter socket you find may be too fat :oops: and need to be ground-off on/with a grinding wheel; otherwise, it won't have enough "purchase" to sufficiently grasp the nut.

European cars are frequent users of large 36mm sockets. :)
 
I believe what Water Rat is referring to is that the bailer plug is
frozen. If you can't remove the plug you will not be able to get
a socket on the nut below it. It's not uncommon to have to cut the
top of the plug off with a cutting wheel and then split the nut. Kind
of bummer since the bailer plugs go for between $40 and $60 on
E-Bay. Before doing that I'd put a pair of Vice-Grips on the plug and
see if I could work it back and forth.
 
Again guys many thanks. The bailer plug is frozen in what appears to be an up position....I have had some strong people try to move it w pipe wrench ..but it didn't budge... If I can get it unfrozen the bailer may be o.k. once it is given a bath in blaster.
 
You may end up replacing it with a plastic bailer unit if all else fails. Gads, the death
of a Depersia bailer plug is a tragic event.
 
Plan on a 2nd person holding the scoop as a socket on a frozen cockpit side nut will probably spin the entire bailer as well. You'll probaby scar tbe spinoff plug also trying with force to unscrew it with a pipe wrench etc
 
Sounds like a situation for a special kind of wrench. I'll look it up the details of the DePersia later, as I'm busy with the estate sale of James A Walgreen. (You may have bought aspirin from him). ;)

In the meantime, is this 36mm "crows foot" an option?

$_57.JPG
 
No the cap needs to come off first regardless of how you grab tbe nut
image.jpg

Jeepers, the tolerance is close. :eek:

Is it worth grinding off the plug's knurled edges to save an $87 metal bailer? (I think it is). :cool:
The plug is made of brass, so a new surface (knurled surface) can be soldered or brazed on. :cool:

A 12-point socket would be an easier "fit" than a 6-point socket...But I'd tap it with the 6-point socket to find where to grind the plug. Or grind the interior of the 36mm socket/crow's foot to fit? Turning simultaneously with a pipe wrench and crow's foot would help to loosen the whole works. I'd even pry it out, to work on it later, and fix the fiberglass later! :eek:

A different wrench to heat and bend to fit? Five minutes on a grinder?

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If it were mine, I'd "spray and pray". :( (Maybe use a hammer and chisel to drive the nut in the correct direction—lefty-loosey).
 
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again many thanks..No wind to speak of for a week so I'll use blaster and lime away((attacks rust) for that period before cuting into the sucker. Other then that the hull is in good shape...took care of stress cracks..one small hole...and installed inspection ports.. Foam is dry..and nothing shakes rattles or rolls....deck fitings are tight...for a 68 its it's in great shape.
 
It's not the metal bailer worth all that money, it's the Brass Plug. Go to E-bay
and check it out. I usually find metal bailers for about $25. On a positive note
you can get a brass drain plug and retention nut that fits at the hardware store.
 
again many thanks..No wind to speak of for a week so I'll use blaster and lime away((attacks rust) for that period before cutting into the sucker. Other than that the hull is in good shape...took care of stress cracks..one small hole...and installed inspection ports.. Foam is dry..and nothing shakes rattles or rolls....deck fittings are tight...for a 68 its it's in great shape.
For two days, the wind has been fierce here! :eek: Stored, as it is, near the water, if there was any water in the cockpit, it'd be blown out by now. :confused:

Now I've seen another view—and had a nap ;) to think on this...a view of the closed bailer:

image.jpg

If nothing else works (though I think spraying & praying & waiting will) :cool: it looks like you could take a Sawz-All to the knurled part of the plug, cut it off, use the 36mm socket to remove the nut, and reattach the knurled part back on later. (With flux, solder or braze).
 
Ya know...I"ve got a DePersia bailer in my 69 fish, that I got unfrozen, after my acquisition of the boat. It doesn't have the little ball in it, but that would only affect it when I'm not going fast enough. But I just want to add, I don't think the bailer really works all that well. The openings aren't really that large on the bailer and I've been "humming" along and the water doesn't go out all that fast. I only like it because it is metal. I sail on KY Lake and even with 15+ knots of wind, don't take all that much water into the cockpit. At some point I might stick in one of the Anderson bailers...and definitely before I put in the plastic one now offered. In a capsize a scooper does much better anyway.
I basically only open the bailer when it's sitting on the trailer, so rain water has an escape route
 
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I'm surprised no one has found a PVC plug that fits, that could replicate these outrageously priced screw on caps. I have no idea of the thread size, but it all seems unique, down to the nut size, to these bailers
Maybe I'll take mine into Home Depot one day and see what they have...or a plumbing center.
 
Spray and Pray. I' spraying and taping it 3 times a day. Plan to do it till we get wind. Can't help but wonder why no one has made a stainless steel bailer. . It would be alot stronger then a plastic one . There are more than 120 grades of stainless and it could be made of a moderate cost one which with proper care would probably do the trick if the fish owner realized that stain less does not stand for rust or corrosion free..and a fresh water bath and wipe down is mandatory. . . The big question mark is...the size of the market for it.
 
Ya know...I"ve got a Despersia bailer in my 69 fish, that I got unfrozen, after my acquisition of the boat. It doesn't have the little ball in it, but that would only affect it when I'm not going fast enough. But I just want to add, I don't think the bailer really works all that well. The openings aren't really that large on the bailer and I've been "humming" along and the water doesn't go out all that fast. I only like it because it is metal. I sail on KY Lake and even with 15+ knots of wind, don't take all that much water into the cockpit. At some point I might stick in one of the Anderson bailers...and definitely before I put in the plastic one now offered. In a capsize a scooper does much better anyway.
I basically only open the bailer when it's sitting on the trailer, so rain water has an escape route
Glad to hear that. I am on the west coast of Florida and having run a kayak touring comany[ have plenty of hand pumps on hand
 
The big question mark is...the size of the market for it.
They've been made with plastic for 40+ years vs only 20 years or so made with metal. Since there hasn't seemed to be a proven need to change from plastic yet, my guess is it's a pretty limited market and marketing it would be cost-prohibitive given the small number of likely sales.
 
I'm surprised no one has found a PVC plug that fits, that could replicate these outrageously priced screw on caps. I have no idea of the thread size, but it all seems unique, down to the nut size, to these bailers
Maybe I'll take mine into Home Depot one day and see what they have...or a plumbing center.
I carried the threaded plastic Sunfish bailer part to Home Depot's plumbing aisles, and compared with everything they had. :cool:

Nothing fit. :confused:
 
could the new Asian boat surprise us?
A major key to manufdacturing in Asia is to have your own people on the staff there. American tent makers were among the fist to do this.. and in one case two of them ended up using the same factory..and they and others continue to turn out quality products. A lot of Rolex watch cases are made by Sea Gull in China..Timex and Seko have built a joint factory there. Yes, a lot of crap is still made there.. If laser is hard ass on quality control with their own people riding herd and the final product is not super heavy they may have a winner especialy if the price point is lower then what the fiberglass boats sell for.. Plastic cannot be formed as easy as fiberglass and there are other composite materials entering the small boat world so the future could be interesting.
 
Sunfish are a one design boat with boats only produced by one manufacturer to keep it one design. As Beldar said the plastic bailer have been around 40 years as is approved bailer for the class. You could put a old bailer on as it was approved at one time. You certainly can modify things on your boat but you would not be able to race if the parts did not come from the manufacturer as it is not following the one design. Modifying also hurts your ability for resale. We see on this forum all the time where people have made rudders, centerboards and other modifications which is fine for them but then when it comes to sell the people on the forum point out changes, the new buyer does not want a modified boat.
 
Sunfish are a one design boat with boats only produced by one manufacturer to keep it one design. As Beldar said the plastic bailer have been around 40 years as is approved bailer for the class. You could put a old bailer on as it was approved at one time. You certainly can modify things on your boat but you would not be able to race if the parts did not come from the manufacturer as it is not following the one design. Modifying also hurts your ability for resale. We see on this forum all the time where people have made rudders, centerboards and other modifications which is fine for them but then when it comes to sell the people on the forum point out changes, the new buyer does not want a modified boat.
My racing days are over and the only modification I have made is an inspection port. I may ad a hiking strap.It's a 68...two years shy of being 50 and an antique. Me...I'm in my 8th decade and I am an antique.
 
For those looking for a DePersia bailer replacement cap, you can use a 2" Garboard plug, They cost $2.00 and can be found online or at True Value hardware stores in the pluming section.
Sea Choice also makes them.


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For those looking for a Despersia bailer replacement cap, you can use a 2" Garboard plug, They
cost $2.00 and can be found online or at True Value hardware stores in the pluming section.
Sea Choice also makes them.
Will File..many thanks..still in the spray and pray stagfe
 
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I suppose you could put that on a drill press and drill out the center...and then a couple of horizontal holes thru the threads, to emulate the original cap. However, unless the threads are tapered, it won't completely seal shut like the original with the "knarled cap" with the rubber O ring gasket.
 

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