limits on class legal?

Cavi

Member
I am probably going to upgrade some of the controls on my 1981 laser to the newer style. Looking on the intensity sails website, I see alot of good stuff but alot of it they say is not class legal. For example, the base for the two blocks that gets mounted to the deck behind the mast. They sell one but claim it is not class legal. Is this really a deal breaker if I am not going to race and win at nationals? Is it something that is really going to be checked if I hit up local races say in the san Francisco Bay area? I am sure I will not be winning any time in the foreseable future. Is it worth me spending the extra $ for this? Next, I was planning on making some sort of out haul, possibly not the stock one but similar. Am I okay as long as I do not have more turns in the line than is in the rules? Next, the boom vang. Again why is one of them legal and the other from intensit not legal as long as there are not more turns than in the rule book? For that matter is it permissable for me to use the stock old setup and invert it so that my jamcleat is on the bottom, which would make it easier to grab? The double cleat on the deck, does that one have to be a specific one also? On that same note, I see that the base for that double cleat is held by two screws, on in front one in back, is that hole pattern the same as the current single jam cleat that came on my boat?
 
All the class approved upgrades use the same mounting holes that the old rigging fittings used. They were specifically designed that way. I can't comment on the non-approved stuff only because I haven't used it, but others have and I'm sure will chime in.

As to why only certain fittings were made class legal, it's partly to make sure everyone is "playing" the same game" w/o having to spend time with measurers etc.. Just the way the class rules are. Another part, frankly, is to allow the builders to profit from the revenue of selling the upgrades.

Will someone complain about non-class approved fittings ? You can read thru the threads posted here about it, in general, get a feel for your local fleet by going to one of their events and ask around. At the club events I've been to, unless the fitting just does not resemble the class fitting, no one cares if it is class legal or not.. At regional events, there may be some who make a point about it, at national events, everyone shows up with the class legal stuff. YMMV
 
Remember it is only the actual stainless steel plate and the black plastic base that are the 'builder supplied' parts. You can put whatever blocks and cleats you like on them (as long as the cleats fit of course).

For the kicker there are various ways of using the 'old' blocks to get extra purchase. I saw an old setup online somewhere that claim 12:1 which is probably enough for most people.
 
I am probably going to upgrade some of the controls on my 1981 laser to the newer style. Looking on the intensity sails website, I see alot of good stuff but alot of it they say is not class legal. For example, the base for the two blocks that gets mounted to the deck behind the mast. They sell one but claim it is not class legal. Is this really a deal breaker if I am not going to race and win at nationals? Is it something that is really going to be checked if I hit up local races say in the san Francisco Bay area? I am sure I will not be winning any time in the foreseable future. Is it worth me spending the extra $ for this? Next, I was planning on making some sort of out haul, possibly not the stock one but similar. Am I okay as long as I do not have more turns in the line than is in the rules? Next, the boom vang. Again why is one of them legal and the other from intensit not legal as long as there are not more turns than in the rule book? For that matter is it permissable for me to use the stock old setup and invert it so that my jamcleat is on the bottom, which would make it easier to grab? The double cleat on the deck, does that one have to be a specific one also? On that same note, I see that the base for that double cleat is held by two screws, on in front one in back, is that hole pattern the same as the current single jam cleat that came on my boat?
The only difference between the Intensity supplied parts and the class legal parts is a "Laser" trademark stamp on the parts. Nobody cares for local racing. Save yourself some money. The sail is a different story and in some races people might object.
You should check out the district 24 page at http://skysail.com/sailing/d24/
Lots of sailing in the evenings at http://skysail.com/sailing/d24/short-course.html You can use an intensity sail in any of these informal races.

Then you should join the mailing list to keep in the loop for practice sailing and other races that are not on the official calendar.
Looking forward to see you.
E
 
Depends on if you want to protect value of your boat.

My view is that using replica sails is fine for local events but all other kit on your boat should be class compliant as they are not consumable items.
 
Sorry, I was not asking about sails, my plan was to have a intensity sail for everyday use and a real laser one for races. I was mainly asking about small stuff like the mounting plate for the two blocks near the mast
 
Depends on if you want to protect value of your boat.

My view is that using replica sails is fine for local events but all other kit on your boat should be class compliant as they are not consumable items.

Wasn't there a case a few years ago where a mother bought her son a used boat right before a big event, only to have it disqualified due to a knock-off spar? I believe there was much disagreement and many hurts feelings.

Let this serve as a warning to anyone buying or selling a boat. Know what you are buying, and be upfront about what you are selling.
 
yeah, I saw all the stuff on the spars, mine is 1981 and came with wood spars, and from what I can tell I should be okay with those.
 
on that same note, and not that I am planning on it but my boat came with a colored sail as you can see in my avatar, it is still a laser made sail with the numbers and all on it. would it be legal even though it is not the white? As I said I am not planning on racing this sail as it is old, very old.......
 
why not on the wood spars, they are what came with the boat. The rule book states that wood spars are allowed if they came in that year, but you could not use them on a boat that did not come with them. I honestly do not know what year they quit offering wood spars but I really doubt someone got rid of the composite ones in favor of wood core ones and left the stock colored sail. If you saw this boat you would know everything one it was stock other than the mast step repair. Also keep in mind the wood spars are white on the outside, but they are deffinitly wood
 
why not on the wood spars, they are what came with the boat. The rule book states that wood spars are allowed if they came in that year, but you could not use them on a boat that did not come with them. I honestly do not know what year they quit offering wood spars but I really doubt someone got rid of the composite ones in favor of wood core ones and left the stock colored sail. If you saw this boat you would know everything one it was stock other than the mast step repair. Also keep in mind the wood spars are white on the outside, but they are deffinitly wood

The wood foils sold with the hulls stopped around 1974.
There were a couple of reasons why people with newer boats wanted to replace the new foils with the old wood ones:
1. Thickness - many of the wooden foils were thicker (especially the daggerboard) which some thought was a better shape.
2. Stiffness - many of the wooden foils were stiffer = better performance
3. less prone to ding/nick/chip
 
Find your Hull ID # on the transom.. Last two digits on the right should be the year..
(a few posts ago, you said your hull was a 1981 model, which would mean the foils did not come with the hull)
 
All wood blades I have every seen were stained and varnished.

Lucky, you must sail in weed free water.. Lots of places up and down the east coast of the US, with eel grass, Lasers and Sunfish sailors painted their wood blades white so it was easy to tell when you had picked up grass..
 
Your boat is 1981. It is old and tired. It has poor blades. It has a poor sail. You should not be worrying about buying class legal equipment.

The reality is unless you are doing a serious race(regional, state, national, international) no one cares. At the end of the day there is no advantage to be gained buy using any of the generic parts. They simply cost less. The only thing other than adding an outboard motor to a Laser that would make it faster would be the sail. However, it is generally accepted that the generic sails offer no performance gains(they just last longer due to better sail cloth).

So you have 3 good options

1.keep the boat you have and update with $400 worth of Intensity gear. The new sail, outhaul & down haul gear, maybe a new alloy tiller & ext. Spend a bit more for a new vang or modify the one you have with a couple of blocks and a $5 Dyneema loop(instead of a swivel at the mast).

2.Its probably not cost effective to replace your blades(even generic ones are expensive). It would be more cost effective to sell your boat and find another newer used/tired one that someone else has done the above.

3. Buy a really good used boat with all the legal gear and use it at the Worlds if you dare.
 
Yes and very no. my hull while old is in decent shape other than the mast repair, very little wear on the bottom. Blades are in real good shape and I mean real good shape. Sail is deffinitly old and tierd, and I will replace it with initially a intensity sail and depending on where I end up using it a class legal one also.
The advantage of going my way is it allows me to spend money slowly while still enjoying the boat. I wanted to have the "class legal"answers so that I had an idea what to look for when I decided to start joining races nearby. I did not have any idea what to expect. If the only place that a intensity sails plate is going to be a problem is in national them that is how I will go.
Looking at the big picture, I am the weakest link on this boat, both from experience and from my weight. So this is a inexpensive way to get into it. If down the road I really get into it and start doing great, then who knows it might be worth 3500 for a good newer used boat. For now I will run mine and upgrade as I go. I am going to first modify m outhaul . and initially I am just doing it better than what is there. After that I will consider if I will be upgrading the the XD vang. I am not sure I really need it at this point. Maybe in a couple of months.
 
Couple of points. If you are considering a steady progression of upgrades then if / when you get to a newer hull you can take the XD kit with you, so it might as well be class legal. That was my justification anyway, even if I never get round to that final upgrade. Shop around and buy when you see it at a good price. No need to rush. I bought the cheaper Holt / Allen kit rather than the Harken, but it's a personal choice.

Secondly, I'm not sure the new outhaul and Cunningham actually put that much more stress on the deck. They have far more turns in the system and so require far less effort at the end you're pulling to achieve the same tension in the sail. I've just upgraded and can now crank on the tension with gentle tweaks. OK, the old outhaul was cleated off at the boom, not the deck, so you've now got 2 control lines at the turning block on the deck. However, once you've pulled the clew out to the end of the boom, there's no point tugging any harder.

The new kicker though certainly puts more bend in the mast and boom, so that is the one to watch. I was really struggling to get the boom down block to block with the old system. Now it's easy. In this case, the mechanical advantage of all those turns is multiplying the force you apply massively before exerting it on the boom.
 
The new kicker though certainly puts more bend in the mast and boom, so that is the one to watch. ... all those turns is multiplying the force you apply massively before exerting it on the boom.

I heartily recommend putting in the boom stiffener/doubler kit to reduce the odds of breaking the boom. Newer boats/booms come with the doubler from the factory. You can get it for older boats from APS, and possibly Intensity now. Much cheaper than a new boom, and might take and hour or 2 to put it in.
 
I heartily recommend putting in the boom stiffener/doubler kit to reduce the odds of breaking the boom. Newer boats/booms come with the doubler from the factory. You can get it for older boats from APS, and possibly Intensity now. Much cheaper than a new boom, and might take and hour or 2 to put it in.
Also flip your top section and maybe your bottom if there is a lot of corrosion at the vang tang.
E
 
I will look in to the stiffiner, as for corosion, there does not look to be any, the boom and mast sections are in really great shape. Took the boat out Friday and had tons of fun. Heavier wind than I would have liked to get used to the boat, but it went well. Didn't even get wet. Almost twice, the sheets caught on the transom on jibes, and the wind was strong so I couldnt quite release them without flipping, I ended up doing a 360 both times and releasing them. Lots of fun!
 
I will look in to the stiffiner, as for corosion, there does not look to be any, the boom and mast sections are in really great shape. Took the boat out Friday and had tons of fun. Heavier wind than I would have liked to get used to the boat, but it went well. Didn't even get wet. Almost twice, the sheets caught on the transom on jibes, and the wind was strong so I couldnt quite release them without flipping, I ended up doing a 360 both times and releasing them. Lots of fun!
Do yourself a favor and flip at least the top section.
No matter how good it looks, if it has been used for close to 40 years, the metal is fatigued. It's an easy job and it will save you having to buy a new top section and having to repair your sail.
I speak from personal experience...
E
 
Do yourself a favor and flip at least the top section.
No matter how good it looks, if it has been used for close to 40 years, the metal is fatigued. It's an easy job and it will save you having to buy a new top section and having to repair your sail.
I speak from personal experience...
E
Just happened to a good friend a few weeks ago. Bought a 1983 hull. Hadn't been used in a few years. Snapped the upper in less than 20 knots of breeze. It had corrosion under the bushing.
 
... the sheets caught on the transom on jibes ...
Glad you're enjoying it. I'd also suggest flipping that upper mast.

On the sheet catching on the corner in a jibe- I tied a couple knots in the traveller, like below, and it helps a lot. It's not a 100% fix but it's definitely an improvement. I'm pretty sure this is not class legal (I don't race tho). But it only takes a minute to put the knots in or take 'em out.
traveller limiter+aft access port- mine.jpg
 
Not legal if racing. It will bring the boom more to centerline if sheeted all the way in. It makes the boat point very high, but it is slow. If you are headed down the layline to a mark and need to really pinch up, one can sheet in all the way, and then grab the boom and pull it up the traveler. It makes the boat point a few degrees higher allowing you to fetch the mark.
 
the sheets caught on the transom on jibes, and the wind was strong so I couldnt quite release them without flipping,

Once I came to understand the purpose of having the full width of the traveler rope for the block to ride on, which includes light winds, I would never change that with knots. Not that knots on the traveler don't work to keep the main sheet from catching on the transom. They do.

It's just that when I figured out the right technique for manipulating the main sheet during a jibe, the sheet never gets caught on the transom anymore. So I now have the best of both worlds.

Cavi, you probably saw this in the other thread... because you were part of that thread... but I'll provide a link here. Dennis' (Eyeper) technique really works. Here's the link:

A Good Day on Tomales Bay

- Andy
 
Yeah I watched the video today, and now that I have had the issue I can see what he is doing and I will give it a try on Friday!
 

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