Help Needed from Rascal Owners

JillMB

New Member
Hi, I just picked up my first sail boat: a 1970 Rey Greene Rascal! I love it but it needs a lot of love. As it is everything is functioning but the rudder. I hope to really fix up the boat all shiny and I thought to start with the rudder. The one that came with the boat is not original… and is not savable… I plan to get one made but want to get as close to the original as possible. With very little info out on Rascals I'm hoping someone out there as one with an original rudder! Please, I need specs and pictures. I really want to do this right! Thanks!
 
My Rascal's an '84 so I'm not sure if it's the same. If you find out that it is, I'd be happy to send you any info you need on it.
 
My Rascal's an '84 so I'm not sure if it's the same. If you find out that it is, I'd be happy to send you any info you need on it.
I was just about to give up hope and modify a Lido 14 rudder to fit.... My plan B. I would greatly appreciate any info you could send me: Dimensions and pictures. I'm thinking that so few Rascals were made that the design did not change. Other then my hope I could not find any info about this, like with anything else with the Rascal.

Have you had yours long? Do you have any original paperwork? I guess I just excited to talk to someone that actually knows what it is :)
 
Hey there, Jill.
I've had my Rascal for a few years, now. Unfortunately I don't have any paperwork save a brochure I found with a picture of mine on the internet. I looked and asked around for quite a while and didn't turn up anything on my boat. But I digress..
I'm fully prepared to give you all the measurements and pics that you need! .... just as soon as I see my boat again. :( I'm so sorry, but you may have to start your renovation on something other than the rudder. I'm in Southeast Michigan and I keep my boat about 230 miles away in Traverse City, MI. If I keep it up there it can spend our wonderful Michigan winters warm and dry in a pole barn. The rudder I have is made out of laminated mahogany. It's a fairly simple design. Basically a rectangle with a radiused bottom. Two 1/4" aluminum plates create the union to the tiller and gudgeons.
I'll see if I have any pics I can send you in the meantime, but I'm not planning to head back up to see her until around June. When I do, I'll bring the rudder assembly home with me and if you want we can meat out your plan.
Happy renovating!
 
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Here are some pics of mine. Not sure it's original, but my Rascal is a 70's Ray Greene. The rudder blade is some kind of fiberglass composite that's worn away to the point I get what feels like glass slivers when I touch it. I wish it were metal! I suspect it was fabricated as a replacement, as it looks a little crude around the edges. It does "kick up" for launching or beaching the boat. Hope this helps.

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Steve,
Your rudder blade looks to be a spot on match to mine as far as the shape, but everything else is different. I had fabricate a different tiller for mine since the one that came with my boat was so long that it would get in the way while tacking. Made my new one 1/2 as long and then put a quick release extention on the end. I'd be interested to find out if the dimensions for the rudder and the gudgeons are the same, though.
Thanks for the pics.
 
My handle is quite long (didn't realize how long until I brought it inside and took those pictures) and has an extension on it. I find it handy when single handing as I can center my weight farther forward in the cockpit. BTW, I live in the Grand Haven area. Have spent some time on Duck/Green lakes (Interlochen) and Lower Herring Lake (south of Frankfort).
 
Thank you for sharing the pics. I lost my rudder today on my maiden sail when we capsized. Lesson for the day, make sure there's a cotter pin in the rudder.
 
BUMMER! Sorry to hear of your misfortune! As you can see from my pics, my rudder has a pintle stop that keeps the pintles in the gudgeons. (Pins in the holes.) Can't remove the rudder without pressing the stop in.
 
Wow. That really sucks, Treedog. Let me know if I can do anything to help out. Shouldn't be that hard to replace. Why couldn't you just modify another rudder assembly by changing the locations of the pintles to fit your Rascal?
 
Yes, I already have one, and another offered up. The one I have is too small to modify, or at least seems like it would not work well if I did. And I haven't given up recovering the lost one yet - we plan on snorkeling out there this weekend, and it was shallow water - although that is an admitted long shot.

Thank you for the offer, I may be back to you for advice yet!
 
Yes, I already have one, and another offered up. The one I have is too small to modify, or at least seems like it would not work well if I did. And I haven't given up recovering the lost one yet - we plan on snorkeling out there this weekend, and it was shallow water - although that is an admitted long shot.

Thank you for the offer, I may be back to you for advice yet!


..Ha! You're not close, are you? I'm a scuba diver with salvage experience. I'd love to go on a hunt!
 
No, upstate New York, near Albany. We talked about getting tanks, and may resort to that yet!

I have to ask you about getting the boat off the trailer. We had a devil of a time with the keel, which dropped down in between the crossbeams, stopping the boat from sliding off. It is not a stock trailer that came with the boat, but that shouldn't matter, should it? Is there some way to (easily) retract the centerboard and LOCK it into place?

Hmmm, maybe I should look into renting tanks. Cheaper and easier than fabricating a new rudder, and more fun...

Thanks for the help!
 
Have a look at my pic. I have a line connected to my centerboard that comes up and goes through a jamb-cleat that locks it in the upright position. I would think you would have something similar on your boat? I pull the fore-most line to lower it, and the aft line to raise it. I had the same problem as you when I first got the boat and didn't make sure the aft line was locked and got a nice ding in my centerboard when it smacked on the trailer axle.
If you decide to rent tanks, be careful if you're not certified and don't go alone. Even in very shallow water, people can get into trouble. Good luck and be safe.
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Well snorkeling around in the milfoil didn't help any, it's only eight feet deep but visibility is literally 2-3 feet. Looks like I'm going to have to go another route. Thank you for the pic, mine isn't nearly in as good shape. But I believe I have a similar set-up.
Thanks for all the help, I'll be back!
 
Can I trouble you to provide dimensions of the rudder, length & width? I think I can sort of fudge in the rest, relying on the distance between the gudgeons to make everything else fit. I have someone helping to build a new one.
 
I have no problem at all giving you any information you might need... all I ask in return is a bit of patience. Unfortunately I keep my boat up near Torch Lake, MI. That's about 230 miles north of my home. All is not lost, though. I'm planning on going up a week from today with a buddy to do some fly-fishing and ... wait for it.... sailing. :)
If you let me know what you need, I'd be more than happy to provide it for you. radius, taper, thickness, you name it. Hopefully that won't be too long for you to wait. I'm sure if I was in your shoes I'd be anxious to get back on the water..
 
So little to ask in return!
I figure I don't need to duplicate yours, just get to something that matches in functionality. That said, taper never even occurred to me.

And this gives me another chance to scout for my lost one this weekend. I'm renting tanks and getting serious, dammit.

Thank you for the help. Enjoy the fly fishing on the lake, sounds great!
 
Hi, I just picked up my first sail boat: a 1970 Rey Greene Rascal! I love it but it needs a lot of love. As it is everything is functioning but the rudder. I hope to really fix up the boat all shiny and I thought to start with the rudder. The one that came with the boat is not original… and is not savable… I plan to get one made but want to get as close to the original as possible. With very little info out on Rascals I'm hoping someone out there as one with an original rudder! Please, I need specs and pictures. I really want to do this right! Thanks!
Hey Jill,
I have a Rascal with lime green hull, and lime green and yellow sail (I bought it because of the colors, as if I need another boat). It is all original. I will take pictures of my rudder and send you the measurements. I dug up a little info on the boat (there's very little) last year and I'll try to find it and post it.
 
Electro,
Your boat sounds exactly like mine. Is yours a Spindrift OneDesigns, or a Ray Greene? Mine looks like the only thing it's missing is a Mellow Yellow logo.
 
So little to ask in return!
I figure I don't need to duplicate yours, just get to something that matches in functionality. That said, taper never even occurred to me.

And this gives me another chance to scout for my lost one this weekend. I'm renting tanks and getting serious, dammit.

Thank you for the help. Enjoy the fly fishing on the lake, sounds great!
Well,
I'm back! Got a lot of sailing in. So many perfect days for it. I have all the measurements you need... if you still need them. If you do, let me know which ones exactly. If you want them all, no worries. There's a compound curve in the top of my rudder so it would almost be easier for me to just trace the whole thing and mail you the outline.
Let me know
Mike
 
I'm thinking I need the overall dimensions of the rudder itself, as I am not sure how big it needs to be to properly steer the boat. I have a rudder from a smaller boat that I was going to take the tiller from, and use the two aluminum plates as a pattern for getting larger ones made (so the pins will fit in the gutcheons). But if you would send me whatever dimensions you have, that would be great! Please send to:
Rick Percoco
2 Rolling Ridge Dr.
East Greenbush, NY 12061

I'm thinking I may have to make the rudder itself out of marine-grade plywood. I can't figure out how I am suppose to get fiberglass, much less shape and work with it.

Thank you for the help! Glad to know you were able to get out on the lake.

Best,
Rick
 
Rick,
working with fiberglass is simple. I felt the same way about it before I built a drift boat but trust me, it's no big deal. As for obtaining it, there's a ton of places online to order it from. Try Jamestown Distributors. For something like a rudder, I wouldn't get anything thicker than 7 oz. bi-axial weave. As for the Epoxy, you're going to need West Systems 207 special clear hardener, and 105 resin. Both of which can be obtained from Jamestown Distributors.
I suppose you could use plywood, but because of the taper, it would make it quite weak along the trailing edge. Even with the fiberglass.
I literally have everything I need to make you one in my workshop right now. I just don't know when I'd be able to get to it, and wouldn't want you to have to wait for me. It's simple if you have the correct tools, but you'd need a thickness planer since the rudder is only about 1/2" thick, clamps to join each plank of wood (mine is actually made up of 4 pieces joined together on edge) a joiner, a way to taper both edges (I'd use a hand plane and a router), and then the materials to fiberglass it, although if it was made from solid mahogany, you really wouldn't need to fiberglass it. Just a few coats of epoxy and some varnish. If you can't find something that will work, let me know and I'd be happy to help you out. I'll charge you if it would make you feel more comfortable. :) I'd be more than fair. But I'd love to have a reason to make some sawdust.
I'll sketch up the dimensions for you and send them over tomorrow.
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I have rudder envy.

If not plywood, would you use pine or poplar if you were going to fiberglass it? I see what you mean about the taper and losing strength, although I could easily see me taking some shortcuts for now, just to put something together.

Any idea where to source the aluminum plates? It would be great if those are made somewhere. Or do I just buy aluminum in Home Depot? I have the two pins that I can take off an old rudder that is too small. I don't think I can rig up the plates off it to fit my transom, and I don't want to move the gutcheons to fit the smaller rudder. If that makes any sense to you.

And if you are up for building one, I would be oh so glad to compensate you for your time.

Best,
Rick
 
Pine would most likely be too light of a wood for the size and thickness. It's almost 3 feet long. At just 1/2" thick, I'm thinking pine would not fare so well. Even if it was temporary. Obviously, mahogany is a great choice since it's very stable and has a high cellulose content (makes it really good at resisting rot, like cedar only way stronger) but it can get pricey. For something temporary I would go with white oak. shape it, then paint the heck out of it. Forget about fiberglass or epoxy. You'd be wasting your time if it was temporary. As you said, you just need something to get you up and running.
The aluminum wouldn't be available at Home Depot. You'd have to go to an industrial supplier for it. The good news is that they would probably have some scrap that would be the right size so they'd hopefully cut you some kind of deal. I used to deal a lot with those types of companies (just local here in MI) and if you give them a rough size and thickness they should be able to tell you yes or no. ANY one dealing in that type of metal would be able to cut it to the dimensions you need. (for a nominal fee, of course.) The aluminum on mine is roughly a 1/4" thick. What I would do is just give them a drawing with dimensions (supplied by yours truly) and tell them you need two. The holes you could just drill yourself since aluminum is super soft and easy to work with.
The tough part are the pintles. (pins that sit into the gudgeons) You're right in not wanting to move them. I would never drill holes in my boat if I didn't need to! Mine look to be machined out of billet aluminum. I could give you an exact rendering of them, but there's no way you could make one. You'd have to have someone with a C and C machine mill it out. You're best bet would be to find two pintles, any that fit into your gudgeons and then make everything else to fit them.
As I said I would definitely be able to make you a permanent rudder. If you wanted, I could make it look pretty much like the one I have. No big deal. I just need to know exactly how you plan on mounting the thing before I start chopping up an expensive piece of mahogany. ;)
Of course, the one thing I didn't measure are the diameter of pintle, but then you should be able to figure that out by measuring the hole in your gudgeon.
Sorry for the long reply. I start talking shop and lose all control.
talk to you soon
Mike
 
I was going to take the pintles (ah, if you don't know the jargon ...) off the old rudder I have, since they fit my gutcheons. And that to me is like half the battle. It's the aluminum plates I have that are too small, because the pintles can't be moved far enough apart to fit the gutcheons on my boat. I wanted to just adapt the existing one, but I don't see how it would work. Hence I need new aluminum, and try to describe the shape you need ... I live in a rural area but also near Albany, so I figure I should be able to get aluminum from a machine shop that takes pity, or maybe one of the farmers I work with. And thank you for the thickness, and suggesting white oak. That makes perfect sense.
 
Here you go!
on the top plates I purposely left the location of the holes out except for where the rudder pivot goes. Figured it would make it less cluttered that way. Let me know if you have any questions.
Crap. Just realized that I forgot to put in the top dimension of the brackets. It's 4 1/2 inches.
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Any ideas on gelcoat? My Rascal is starting to suffer from the small semicircular breaks in the gelcoat on the topside, both seats and bow. I've done only a small amount of research...most seem to recommend scraping and complete resurface. I have also replaced the centerboard trunk due to carpenter ants. I wasn't as hard as I thought.
Hopscotch
 

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