laser electrical system

birdhouse

New Member
hello-
first post here. i bought a laser a few weeks back and have been having a riot with it! this is kinda long winded... and yes, i'm turning my laser into a RV for the water! no i don't plan on ever racing the craft. i usually sail for 4-6 hours on the columbia river outside portland, OR

the thing that bugs me about the boat is the lack of dry storage. i plan on putting in a 13x30 waterproof hatch between the mast and cockpit. adding two bulheads, one in line with the mast pocket??, and one just in front of the cockpit. i'll add drainage thurofares along the bottom as to allow water trapped in the hull to migrate from bow to stern, yet stay out of the dry (bulkheaded) portion. this dry space should allow me to easily fit all electronics, as well as enough gear to do overnighters on some of the islands in the river.

i've already bought a 30W solar panel to mount in front of the mast on the deck, a 14Ah 12v SLA, and a charge controller. i also purchased a chinese amp that hooks to an ipod that draws ~15w with two 3" marine type speakers that aren't chinese. so that covers the the music, and power set up.

sometimes it gets pretty suspect on light conditions as i'm pulling into the ramp, so i'd love to have a lighting rig so i can be safe and take my time, and potentially night sail! i know i'll need a red/green light for the bow, but i'm confused on how to rig 360 degree white light. are they usually mast top? i could work that if i had to, but it would be a PITA! can i do a light off the stern on a pole? is that legal with sailer and sail potentially blocking the light? even two lights on the back two corners would be easy. i plan on using led for all lighting.

some background on me: i worked in a boatyard for a few years. before that i build a half dozen CLC 15-17' sea kayaks. i own an offgrid ranch with solar and wind power. i built the wind turbine and it's capable of over a Kw. i know my way around a few things, but this sailing this is pretty new to me!

thanks for any thought/advice/flames!

adam
 
Wow, just wow!

This is like trying to turn a sea kayak into a sailboat ..... why don't you consider getting a little larger boat that will accommodate storage and electrical ?
 
Good luck making a water tight anything on a Laser. Sounds like a lot of work when looking for another boat would be an easier solution.

As far as the nighttime lighting, most states are fairly lenient when it comes to a a small vessel without a motor. Often you only need to carry a flashlight that you can shine on the sail as other craft approach (I personally do not think this is enough). I think some sort of red/green light mounted on the bow would be sufficient.
 
thanks for the replys!

i'll take pics as i do the work. yes, i should probably get a larger boat, but this is my first sailboat, and i've owned it for less than two weeks, so i'm trying to temper myself and be happy with what i can do with it. i'm sure i'll get into something larger this winter when prices come down some. i really want a cal 20, or j 24, but the fixed keel thing is a whole other issue.

i really don't find that fiberglassing is all that much work. mix up some west systems, wet out the glass, and wait for harden. i'll make the bulkheads in two pieces in my shop, then insert into the boat, join with more fiberglass, and fillet with west and filler followed by more fiberglass.

i'm really excited to have a solar powered electrical system! though it will have severe limitations, it should easily provide music, a bow light, and charge my cell without issue.

i'm wondering if all these retrofits will make the boat worth more or less when it comes time to sell it. obviously a racer wouldn't want it, but for a day sailor, it would be quite a treat!

adam
 
Adam, you've been off the grid too long ..... get a grip!

Laser's have value to people who race them in sailing clubs. You will reduce the value of your Laser with these mods. If you paid $500 for the boat then go for it!

The cockpit is s too small for a day sailor to enjoy. You can find a used day sailor boat in the 15 - 17 foot range with a bigger cockpit that will be enhanced by your admirable efforts.
 
i paid 900 for it with a lightweight ALU trailer. i'm gonna make the mods, as it will make me happier while sailing, and im sure a future buyer (non racer) will enjoy them as well. BTW, the solar ect. is on the cheap. it'll cost me less than $250 to do all the mods i'm talking about.
 
Adam, I don't mean to discourage you and if the mods are really what you want, then maybe you should do them. I do think that you must realize, though, that you will almost certainly make the boat unsellable, to racer or non racer. I would be interested to see your progress with this project.
 
"almost certainly make the boat unsellable, to racer or non racer"

can you elaborate on this? the solar panel could be easily be removed. thinking of mounting it with HD velcro. i can't see how having a nice waterproof area would hinder selling the boat. the front bulkhead would strengthen the mast pocket significantly... a common problem area with lasers. the total weight added with the waterproof area would likely be less than 10 lbs if the battery ect were removed.

do you guys all just sail your boats for two hours max and not need any water/food/clothing?

adam
 
I have a port with a fat bag. Can store food, water and a dinghy smock in there with no trouble.

Enjoy your mods, birdhouse.
 
"almost certainly make the boat unsellable, to racer or non racer"

can you elaborate on this? the solar panel could be easily be removed. thinking of mounting it with HD velcro. i can't see how having a nice waterproof area would hinder selling the boat. the front bulkhead would strengthen the mast pocket significantly... a common problem area with lasers. the total weight added with the waterproof area would likely be less than 10 lbs if the battery ect were removed.

do you guys all just sail your boats for two hours max and not need any water/food/clothing?

adam

Being primarily a racing boat, and the reason a 20-year-old boat still has value is that it is still actively raced. What I'm saying is the priced of used Laser is artificially high. The changes you propose would make the boat useless for racing and destroy what value it had.
 
Adam, I'm sorry if my comments seemed harsh. I am trying to be helpful. I do think if you really want the modifications that you describe, then go ahead. If you expect to sell the boat, then I would not do the mods. I think anyone looking to buy a Laser would prefer an unmodified boat - I know I would and I don't race.

I really think you would be happier and more comfortable with a larger boat - one that was designed for what you are doing.
 
"The changes you propose would make the boat useless for racing and destroy what value it had."

so you're saying i'm the only person out there to buy a laser with no intention of racing it?

i bought the boat because it's quick, it was cheap, and it is fun. i'd like to think that there are at least a few others that would feel the same way.

the mods i speak about aren't heavy. a big sailor could eat a few less cheeseburgers and get a bit quicker, or for me (165lbs) i can add some mods and still keep the gross weight at a minimum.

adam
 
"I think anyone looking to buy a Laser would prefer an unmodified boat - I know I would and I don't race."

what would be so bad about being able to keep a fleece dry and maybe a sandwich? as stated before, i know my way around fiberglass, ect. after i'm done, the boat will be stronger, and won't look like a boyscout got loose on it with a dull hatchet. with a ~10lb added weight, what would be the negative side to it?

adam
 
This is the last I will have to say on the subject:

1. Such extensive modifications are blatantly in violation of the class rules
2. I hate to think what cutting a large hole in the deck will do to hull stiffness
3. I'll gladly take my 10 lbs. of cheeseburger weight (actually more than that), which I can place where I need and use to hike in strong winds
4. You do this to a $1000 boat, it will become a $500 boat at best (more realistically $250).
 
i appreciate your forwardness. however,

"I hate to think what cutting a large hole in the deck will do to hull stiffness"

the hull of a laser is not joined to the deck, except along the perimeter and mast pocket. cutting a hole in the deck doesn't effect the hull stiffness much, if at all. furthermore, adding two bulkheads will actually make the hull stiffer, and more robust.
 
Hey birdhouse,

It's your boat, do what you want to it and then pay the consequences and/or reap the benefits. Best of luck.
 
thanks BLS.

i've got most of the parts sorted. hatch, fiberglass, west epoxy, bow light, speakers, 30w solar panel, fuses, 12v 12Ah SLA battery ect. still waiting on the amp. still need to get some filler stuff (microspheres or something) to do the fillets between hull and bulkheads and still need some of that 3m 5200 stuff. heading my my offgrid ranch this weekend to install more solar, but hopefully will have time next week to start mods.

went sailing again yesterday after work. sailed to a new island in the columbia. put in about 6 miles total! i was FREEZING by the time i got back to the dock... wishing i had a nice cozy DRY fleece in a waterproof spot!

adam
 
first pick up some beer, then start building and take lots and lots of pictures of the build and finished product
 
i didn't think it was legal to cut fiberglass without a camera and open beer nearby??? i don't want to go to jail for this!

adam
 
so i just took apart the bow light i ordered. it has a single festoon type bulb. 12v 8w. that isn't going to work at all. WAY too high of power draw. i've got a few led type modules lying around. i figure i can fit two of them into the same fixture with a total watt draw of around 2.8w. i guarantee they will be much brighter and create less heat as well! each of the led modules i'll put in has 24 SMD leds. i've only got 12Ah, so i only want to use 5-6Ah or less with no recharge for long battery life. that means i can use ~66watts for an hour and be done if i don't have incoming (solar) power. so, the bow light alone, with mods, could run for around 15-20 hours before the battery would start stratifying, though if in emergency, the bow light could run for 24 hours at max.

adam
 
I'm gonna have to agree with the masses here, and say that chopping big holes in your boat, no matter how well done is gonna severely limit resale. I know I personally would run quickly from any boat modified like this, and no I dont race. I own 2 boats, a laser and a Capri 13 which is basically a laser clone. I keep the laser as stock as possible because even though I dont race I know that I can always easily sell it to someone who does. That IS the market for lasers, not casual day sailors. And yes, the vast majority of people that sail these boats dont stay out more than a couple hours, and dont need to carry a bunch of crap with them. I sailed 25 miles the other day with nothing more than a couple water bottles and some sunscreen. When I go out with my buddy who likes to bring stuff with him he just stuffs everything in a waterproof bag and straps it to the deck.

It's your boat though, do what you like. Just know ahead of time that you will most likely have a hard time selling the boat, and even if someone does want it they will likely use the modifications as a reason to haggle you hard on the price.
 
do you guys all just sail your boats for two hours max and not need any water/food/clothing?
adam

If you sail in a regatta, you will be on the water from 10:00 until 16:00 or so. Sandwiches and water stored in a fat bag plus anything else necessary for the day's race.

Just last night, we were joking about using the tiller extension (motor bike style) to drive a small inboard motor for light wind days. If you really want an engineering project, that one will get you some praise.
 
Adam, unless you're trying to blind oncoming traffic, I'd suggest just a single LED module, something like the front end of one of these 2$ LED flashlights I see, with 9 diodes in them. They run forever on only 3v and are all kinds of bright. I don't know the exact wattage, but would assume it to be a fraction of a single watt.
 
hello-
first post here. i bought a laser a few weeks back and have been having a riot with it! this is kinda long winded... and yes, i'm turning my laser into a RV for the water! no i don't plan on ever racing the craft. i usually sail for 4-6 hours on the columbia river outside portland, OR

the thing that bugs me about the boat is the lack of dry storage. i plan on putting in a 13x30 waterproof hatch between the mast and cockpit. adding two bulheads, one in line with the mast pocket??, and one just in front of the cockpit. i'll add drainage thurofares along the bottom as to allow water trapped in the hull to migrate from bow to stern, yet stay out of the dry (bulkheaded) portion. this dry space should allow me to easily fit all electronics, as well as enough gear to do overnighters on some of the islands in the river.

i've already bought a 30W solar panel to mount in front of the mast on the deck, a 14Ah 12v SLA, and a charge controller. i also purchased a chinese amp that hooks to an ipod that draws ~15w with two 3" marine type speakers that aren't chinese. so that covers the the music, and power set up.

sometimes it gets pretty suspect on light conditions as i'm pulling into the ramp, so i'd love to have a lighting rig so i can be safe and take my time, and potentially night sail! i know i'll need a red/green light for the bow, but i'm confused on how to rig 360 degree white light. are they usually mast top? i could work that if i had to, but it would be a PITA! can i do a light off the stern on a pole? is that legal with sailer and sail potentially blocking the light? even two lights on the back two corners would be easy. i plan on using led for all lighting.

some background on me: i worked in a boatyard for a few years. before that i build a half dozen CLC 15-17' sea kayaks. i own an offgrid ranch with solar and wind power. i built the wind turbine and it's capable of over a Kw. i know my way around a few things, but this sailing this is pretty new to me!

thanks for any thought/advice/flames!

adam

Ya it will be nice to share some pics. Looks useful information.
 
Most people have trouble thinking outside the box.

Yes, you will be making drastic changes from the original design. But the boat you have is older. You also got a trailer in the deal. For the amount of money you have invested, I think you should have the right to modify it to fit YOUR requirements.

My Laser had 4 inspection ports to repair previous hull damage and the hull/cockpit seal came apart with a simple tug. I paid $800 for the Laser with a trailer then sold the trailer for $400. After separating the hull and cockpit, I removed then fiberglassed over 3 of the 4 inspection ports and reinforced the hull repair. I epoxied the hull and cockpit together for strength. Soon I will repaint the whole boat (it was painted once already after its first repair).

Ultimately, the boat has to be something YOU want to use in a way that suits your needs. Experimenting on an older boat is not a bad thing to do. It can bring new insights in many ways. I like your idea of running lights for those late evening cruises.

People need to remember, not everyone races. It is an older boat. As the older boats are removed from the market, the value of the others can increase. But I think that you will have a lot of fun with your modified Laser. That is all that matters!
 
OK so I'll confess I sold my first Laser 1895 to a guy who asked if an outboard motor bracket could be installed on the transom .......... I just gulped and said ....... sure ......!
 
OK so I'll confess I sold my first Laser 1895 to a guy who asked if an outboard motor bracket could be installed on the transom .......... I just gulped and said ....... sure ......!

Freedom of Choice! Got to love it. Who knows what the individual needed to solve a problem!

My '78 Laser (hull number 64701) is being restored to functional use. I know it will never be a racer again, but I enjoyed learning how it was constructed when I separated the hull and decking. The boat is now solid and is a good learning boat for me. I expect to get a new one in a couple years and pass this one down to the younger generation in the family. In the meantime I don't worry about dings and scratches and things that go bump.

I wonder what size outboard that guy decided to put on the Laser. Bet it was FAST!
 
OK so I'll confess I sold my first Laser 1895 to a guy who asked if an outboard motor bracket could be installed on the transom .......... I just gulped and said ....... sure ......!

A friend's brother uses old laser hulls to make duck boats for the Chesapeake and puts a small motor on them, as well as gutting them so you can lie down in it...you could make a miniature PT boat replica maybe, lol. Then use the jetskiers for a dynamic slalom course.

Sorry that was rude of me.
 
well, i've officially murdered the boat. it is no longer legal to race!

the original construction of lasers is interesting. from the deck down, it's fiberglass, foam, then fiberglass. it looks to be made from polyester resin as well, but not sure on that one. all of my modifications have been done with west sytems epoxy. i LOVE that stuff!

i've been taking pictures of the whole thing and will post them when the project is completed. so far, the hole for the main hatch has been cut about three inches behind the mast. the hatch is 10" x 28". i wanted it big enough to easily get tents/sleeping bags in and out. the front bulkhead(s) are done, but not yet fitted to the boat. it's a two piece bulkhead that fits along side the mast pocket. this should make the mast pocket much stronger! they fit almost perfectly within the hull, 1/8" gap at the most.

the rear bulkhead is going to sit just in front of the center board "sleeve"?? i just added some additional fiberglass layers to it tonight. it fits pretty darn good, but is going to need a bit of trimming to make it fit perfect.

i'm using 3/4" PVC pipe that i've ripped in half on the table saw to lay on the bottom of the hull to let any internal water travel from front to back of the boat. i'll fiberglass over that as well.

the bow light has been installed and wiring run to the waterproofed area. i've yet to retrofit an led module into it, but i'm thinking just one module will do it.

i'm in a rush as i want to sail this weekend, so hopefully the project will be mostly complete by the weekend.

adam
 

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